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A few questions about Yelnia Stare and historical fidelity

Khane

By Khane
in Combat Mission Archive #4 (2002)

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Khane Senior Member

Khane

Posted
Posted

******POSSIBLE SPOILER ***************** POSSIBLE SPOILER ***************POSSIBLE SPOILER

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While playing CMBO , most of the time , I used to move my infantry in front of the armor , cleaning the way from some possible "tanks hunters" ambushes while the armor was moving behind , providing suppressing fire....life was beautiful. Life stopped to be beautiful after I installed the CMBB demo on my HD ! :mad:

I played the Tutorial , enjoyed the Citadel scenario and then I began the Yelnia Stare battle...During the setup phase I watched all these Russian infantry troops and was expecting a beautiful scene of a huge human moving carpet cleaning the way for the six T- 34 up to the German positions, as usual. Piece of cake ! :cool:

And then...surprise ! From turn one , I understood that "my" tactic that I loved to use in CMBO was not working like a magic potion anymore and in fact was not working at all.

No , I am not complaining ! Quite the contrary , I find it quite challenging and above all very refreshing to find a new tactic suitable for the Russian conscripts of this scenario and it seems that now the armor has to move first and "clean" the way for the Russian conscripts infantry troops who move relatively far behind supplying the armor some suppressing fire to keep any possible "tank hunter" with the face near the ground. After I destroyed the 2 AT guns I moved ( hunt ) my armor toward the Russian flags and began to move my troops behind very slowly , most of them alternately firing toward the German positions while only two or three platoons running + hiding a few meters each time. When enough German troops were destroyed and their fire toward my Russian infantry began to lower I began to move my troops faster ( more advancing and less suppressing ) until they reached the German flags ( by the way I also played this scenario against the German AI by using only the armor without involving even a single Russian infantry unit and got a total victory quite quickly )

I understand that at this early stage of Barbarossa the German did not have Panzerfausts nor Panzerschrecks and the Panzerwurfmine used by their tank hunter teams in the Yelnia scenario do not seem ( at least in this scenario ) to match the threatening CMBO's Panzerfausts and Panzerscheks of 1944-1945. What happens is that once the 2 AT guns are destroyed ( and of course there is not German armor ) the Russian tanks ( again, in this scenario ) are moving quite freely in the field.

My questions are :

1. How effective were the Panzerwurfmines in real life when used by veterans tank hunter's teams ( like in the scenario )?

2. Were there any other AT weapons used by the German infantry squads at this period ?

3. Does the relatively free movement that the Russian armor is enjoying in the Yelnia scenario ( supposing that there is no enemy tanks, AT guns or air force ) depict the real situation at this stage Barbarossa ?

Thanks.

Khane

[ September 13, 2002, 11:44 AM: Message edited by: Khane ]

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WWB Senior Member

WWB

Posted
Posted

1) PWMs are very, very effective if you can get close enough unspotted. Which explains the german tactic of separating the infantry and the armor--without infantry, armor is easily dealt with by close assaults.

Actually, I find PWMs and grenade bundles preferable to PF30s. Same range, PWS and GBs are much deadlier.

2) You can have PWMs, GBs or Moltovs plus Demo Charges for the engineers.

WWB

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gunnergoz Senior Member

gunnergoz

Posted
Posted
Originally posted by wwb_99:

1) (snip) --without infantry, armor is easily dealt with by close assaults.

(snip)

WWB

Sure, if you have BIG brass ones, no kin, paid up insurance and don't mind a load in your shorts...

We talk easily about this sort of thing from the comfort of our PC hutch, but my limited experience being on the ground next to (admittedly friendly) operating tanks left me shaking at the knees. Those things can kill you when they LIKE you. Being near hositle ones who like crunchies underfoot is still a job for those with iron nerves, quick step and a lucky rabbits foot in their pocket.

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Incognito Senior Member

Incognito

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Yes tanks are easily dealt with inf with explosives etc, but lemme tell ya a story bout'em in Yelnia Stare.

My mgs were delivering kisses by air to ruskie inf and soon they all got homo phobic and retreated... tanks however understand that they were just joking.

So all come and drove right at the center flag in nice punch.

My inf got little shy and wouldn't come out of their fuxholes.

Me did not like that much.

So my door knockers opened fire. 1 to flank and other to ass, all in bout 100m!

Also 2 tank hunters made their way from behind -those dirty bastards.

As i smiled to see few tin can getting opened:

These buttoned radioless fellas moved their fronts to my tin-openers.

This soon made them fell suppressed, and knocked out right at the beginning of next turn.

This all made me feel:

WE ARE BORG-34; HIDING IS FUTILE, YUOR POSITIONS SHALL BECOME KNOWN!

:cool:

-based on true story(unfortunalately)

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WWB Senior Member

WWB

Posted
Posted
Originally posted by gunnergoz:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by wwb_99:

1) (snip) --without infantry, armor is easily dealt with by close assaults.

(snip)

WWB

Sure, if you have BIG brass ones, no kin, paid up insurance and don't mind a load in your shorts...

We talk easily about this sort of thing from the comfort of our PC hutch, but my limited experience being on the ground next to (admittedly friendly) operating tanks left me shaking at the knees. Those things can kill you when they LIKE you. Being near hositle ones who like crunchies underfoot is still a job for those with iron nerves, quick step and a lucky rabbits foot in their pocket.</font>

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Michael Emrys Senior Member

Michael Emrys

Posted
Posted
Originally posted by Khane:

How effective were the Panzerwurfmines in real life when used by veterans tank hunter's teams ( like in the scenario )?

Oh, they were effective enough if you could get one in place. But let's put it this way: When the sergeant handed you one and told you to "Go get 'em!", you made your peace with God.

:eek:

Michael

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Michael Emrys Senior Member

Michael Emrys

Posted
Posted
Originally posted by Khane:

Does the relatively free movement that the Russian armor is enjoying in the Yelnia scenario ( supposing that there is no enemy tanks, AT guns or air force ) depict the real situation at this stage Barbarossa ?

At this stage of the war, tanks were still pretty much the unchallenged Überweapon. Quite a lot happened to change that between Barbarossa and Overlord.

Michael

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Andrew H. Senior Member

Andrew H.

Posted
Posted
Originally posted by Hakko Ichiu:

So, the sneaky Germans invented the anti-tank Frisbee. Gamey sods.

They found it worked better than the anti-tank boomerangs used by ANZAC troops. The biggest disadvantage is that mine dogs would sometimes leap into the air and catch the AT frisbee in their mouth. tongue.gif
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Guest Panzer Boxb

Guest Panzer Boxb

Posted
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Originally posted by K_Tiger:

The guy with the axe on the second instruction picture, is possible a finn... :cool:

Naaaahh...it would have to be a toothpick for it to properly represent a Finn tank hunter. :D
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