gredeker Posted January 11, 2002 Share Posted January 11, 2002 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by CombinedArms: The question is--are you sure 15 moves will be enough? That seems like an awfully short game, unless the map and forces are very small.<hr></blockquote> With a panel of judges determining the real outcome, 15 turns sounds fine to me. Heck, make it 10 so the eventual winner will be determined more quickly! Putting time pressure on the players in certain situations might even be classified as "historical". [shudder] Seriously, the length of the game is one of the not-as-well-known but very effective ways to achieve scenario balance. I'm reminded of all those Banzoic-Nixon arguments in the ASL annuals where they list the pros and cons for each side, which often included a time component, e.g. "defender needs to hold out for two more turns than he realistically can" or "attacker is under severe time pressure, so has to either risk taking casualties and moving quickly in the open, or going through the woods and risk not making it to the objective in time". OK, this half-squad is going to double-time and get CX'ed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted January 11, 2002 Share Posted January 11, 2002 For what it is worth. I would think a 15 turn game a tad short and 20 to 25 would be my favoured time frame. As CA points out, those in the know may have a reason for 15 to 20. I would guess that the results of these final games would be be known very quickly as I am guessing the players that make it through are going to turn around the turns very quickly. BTW I am now back in fog blighted UK and will be firing up the PC for some games this weekend after a 5 week lay off. I am not sure I can play too well and need some practice. Combined Arms I think we have a Railway yard to fight over if I remember right? I will finish the set up and send it over to you. I have a list of people I need to get in touch with to start gaming with. Glad to see JK is finished I look forward to reading some rip roaring AAR's and tales of woe and mayhem. Cheers H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanish Bombs Posted January 11, 2002 Share Posted January 11, 2002 I also consider myself out of the running for the finals, but I will say that 15 turns does not sound too unfair to me, especially since everybody going into it know the limits, the goals and the risk/benefit for each minute. I will also say that I recently started my first "Byte Battle" PBEM match, and have found it to be thoroughly engaging and challenging, and it is 15 turns long, and my opinion is certainly colored by that experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treeburst155 Posted January 11, 2002 Share Posted January 11, 2002 The battle is fairly small and has been tested many times. It takes only four turns for the players to reach the ridge with carefully plotted orders to avoid traffic jams. I'm certain the players will find 15 turns sufficient, and they may even get 20 turns. There will be no security in this one. The players with the highest tourney scores in the regular games will get to choose which side they want. Both players will receive a regular tourney saved .cmb file. This will be more of a "military chess" competition game. It's fun, and quite different IMO. Treeburst1155 out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted January 11, 2002 Share Posted January 11, 2002 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Treeburst155: Treeburst1155 out.<hr></blockquote> I see you've gone up in the world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spanish Bombs Posted January 12, 2002 Share Posted January 12, 2002 At the request/suggestion of Tabpub, who is tired of my whining that I need reinforcements in the game I am playing with him, let me cry out to someone different (although no doubt equally unsympathetic): how about some damn reinforcements? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted January 13, 2002 Share Posted January 13, 2002 Treeburst155, I hope you're still behind on your AAR reading. If not, my apologies. Brain function the last few days has been grossly inadequate for detailed tactical dissections of complex engagements. I say this based on several attempts recently. Regards, John Kettler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bertram Posted January 13, 2002 Share Posted January 13, 2002 Treeburst, If you still need a replacement for the Nordic Wannabee.... I'll be gone from feb 2nd though, so turn rate has to be high. Bertram Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mPisi Posted January 14, 2002 Share Posted January 14, 2002 Just a boost to the first page. Battle with Pix seemingly back on track, turn 3 or 4 I think. Hopefully we won't have to rush since it seems to be one to savour... Battle with Wade is in last 4 turns, with his seemingly-endless streams of infantry and tanks making a nice second effort, after I was so proud to stop his first attempt... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gredeker Posted January 14, 2002 Share Posted January 14, 2002 And another boost - I just finished my game with Jukka-Pekka, and no huge surprises. There isn't much left of a certain town, however. I've also sent off the movie for the next-to-last turn in my game with pixelmaster. Only one more turn to do and then I'll be done with the tourney! I'll also have to write my last three AARs - I suspect they may be a wee bit shorter than my previous ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted January 14, 2002 Share Posted January 14, 2002 What the hey - another boost from Section 1 JP and I are almost done, thank the Lords. Lots of ups and downs in these last few minutes :confused: Pix and I have one or maybe two turns to go. Things are looking up after a very long stalemate. Lots of wrecked vehicles - the scrap merchants will be happy ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CombinedArms Posted January 15, 2002 Share Posted January 15, 2002 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Holien: For what it is worth. Combined Arms I think we have a Railway yard to fight over if I remember right? I will finish the set up and send it over to you. H<hr></blockquote> Sounds great. I'm looking forward to it when you get the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Wilder Posted January 15, 2002 Share Posted January 15, 2002 In my mind scenario length depends on three things: 1. The real battle being portrayed. How was it? Short, long..you would want to capture that. 2. The size of the scenario. Some "Byte" size battles are playable in 15 turns, at least the ones I have seen and tried. 3. The intent of the designer. Scenario length is often a tool of the designer to represent some type of situation in the battle. No fixed rule here. There can be a place for one depending on the above factos and maybe others. WB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Wilder Posted January 15, 2002 Share Posted January 15, 2002 Well, John, after all I've put you through...still speaking to me? :eek: Congrats. You have been through a scenario maze of hell. That alone speaks of some good qualities...endurance being a big one. Same goes for any others who are at this point in the tourney... Wild Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gredeker Posted January 15, 2002 Share Posted January 15, 2002 The last orders in my last game of the tourney have been sent off to pixelmaster. No more thought is required on my end that will alter the outcome. It's actually quite liberating. Of course, I still have to wait for the resulting moveie, and I give myself a week before the withdrawal symptoms hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted January 16, 2002 Share Posted January 16, 2002 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by redeker: Of course, I still have to wait for the resulting moveie, and I give myself a week before the withdrawal symptoms hit. <hr></blockquote> Trust me, they hit a lot sooner than you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gredeker Posted January 16, 2002 Share Posted January 16, 2002 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Kingfish: Trust me, they hit a lot sooner than you think.<hr></blockquote> Nah, it'll take me a week to finish these last AARs. Treeburst, since I can't do anything else to affect my tourney outcome, can I have a copy of the spreadsheet? Pretty please? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CombinedArms Posted January 16, 2002 Share Posted January 16, 2002 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by redeker: The last orders in my last game of the tourney have been sent off to pixelmaster. No more thought is required on my end that will alter the outcome. It's actually quite liberating. Of course, I still have to wait for the resulting moveie, and I give myself a week before the withdrawal symptoms hit. <hr></blockquote> Instead of withdrawal I jumped into the Nordic Wannabe tourney as a replacement--first come, first served. Those scenarios are even stranger than these since they're DELIBERATELY imbalanced, courtesy of Nabla's scoring system, first designed for Rumblings. Thanks, WBW, for still more headaches--though I think I can only hold him responsible for two of them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treeburst155 Posted January 16, 2002 Share Posted January 16, 2002 Redeker, The spreadsheet is on the way. It is an MS Works file (.wks). I hope that works for you. I can change it to straight text fairly easily, but the columns get messed up making it much more difficult to read. Treeburst155 out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wild Bill Wilder Posted January 16, 2002 Share Posted January 16, 2002 Welcome to the mayhem, CA! Since I only did two of these, I put on my devious socks for the occasion! People are still moaning about Meeting of Devils, and perhaps rightly so. It is sad to be a commander and have almost no control due to the chaos around you. But then maybe that is the true test of a good commander. Me? I just wave 'em on..."Do your best." Or, "Go kill something!" Wild Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gredeker Posted January 16, 2002 Share Posted January 16, 2002 <blockquote>quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by Treeburst155: Redeker, The spreadsheet is on the way. It is an MS Works file (.wks). I hope that works for you. I can change it to straight text fairly easily, but the columns get messed up making it much more difficult to read. Treeburst155 out.<hr></blockquote> Thanks Treeburst. MS Works is fine. Er, let me clarify - MS Works poses no compatibility problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted January 17, 2002 Share Posted January 17, 2002 Peter sent me an excellent AAR, and mine on the same fight is well begun, though it probably won't reach his level of detail. The experience was so chaotic, overwhelming and incredibly frustrating that I have no desire to wade through the military muck again so intimately, nor do I need to in order to adequately cover what needs to be addressed. I think I'll finish this one before attempting any further AAR work on the battle against Tom. Wild Bill, I've tried not to take all this grotesque and humiliating military abuse personally, but I do feel that I got practically every short end of the stick in terms of side played in the murderous scenarios you so cleverly and fiendishly concocted. As noted earlier, I can but hope that others in my place performed worse while in my boots in aggregate than I did. Spot reports suggest that this may not be true. This has certainly been a learning experience, and it has borne out my contention earlier that I would do better in general in a realistic tactical environment than I did in min/max run amok. My thanks to you, Treeburst155, WineCape, SuperTed and all the other troops involved in making this searing, wrenching gaming experience possible. Regards, John Kettler Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Norton Posted January 17, 2002 Share Posted January 17, 2002 I wish to second John's comments of thanks to WB, TB, and WC, and all the playtesters. I am down to the last three turns in my last game. These games have been some of the best (and worse) of my Combat Mission life. There has been very much to remember in this Rumblings. Sweet sorrow! And should we meet again, on another field afar, well then my friend, that will be a meeting well met! Thanks again gentlemen, for letting me be a part of this rewarding experience! Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted January 17, 2002 Share Posted January 17, 2002 I just sent off my long AAR to Treeburst155 and cced Peter same. I think I sent the right attachment, but if not, Peter and Treeburst155 both have the correct one on hand. Treeburst155, if I did screw up, please use the correct one when you send out my AAR to Wild Bill and the other, er, victims. With the completion of this AAR, I have only to complete the very long one on my finger gnawing meatgrinder of a battle against Tom before my Section II responsibilities end. Regards, John Kettler [ 01-17-2002: Message edited by: John Kettler ]</p> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WineCape Posted January 17, 2002 Author Share Posted January 17, 2002 To all participants and Peter Svennson in particular, Thank you for your detailed AAR received recently. I see that some combatants went to immense effort to attach maps and notes on the map to your e-mailed AAR's, where most of the participants here do not even have the software to do likewise. While such detailed AAR's as per the ones received are certainly not expected from participants, it is nevertheless a pleasure to read them and be to able to follow them so clearly. I thank you all for your effort so far. Likewise the AAR's received from all the other participants. It just confirms that the participants were the right choices after all for this Rumblings tourney. Treeburts, make notes. These gentlemen will be the first ones invited to our planned CM:BB tourney with the mystery scenario designer. Kind regards, Charl Theron -------------------------- Wine is bottled poetry. -- Robert Louis Stevenson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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