Darkmath Posted February 7, 2005 Share Posted February 7, 2005 Hello, I have questions about the possibility to broach the Western Front Theater by means of CMAK units and TO&E. -In Cmak, allied airborne units are only available from august 1943 to early 1944.During 1944, Airborne platoon TO&Es have some modifications.Then, the airborne operations after the 6thJune(Market Garden,Ardennes...)cannot be reproduced with enough historical accuracy in CMAK. -Some armor units from CMBO are not available in CMAK :Kingtiger,Pershing,90mm TD Jackson,Cromwell,Sherman crocodile and Jumbo. How many of each of them (I surely made a grammatical mistake here!) have been effectively used? And,in historical battle where they have been used in particular? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicky Posted February 7, 2005 Share Posted February 7, 2005 Welcome to the forums Churchill Croc is in CMAK - last few months of 45 Airborne also but the dates escape me. It is possible to incorporate them into scenarios by selecting them in the editor when they are available then changing the date for when you want them to feature. Kingtiger, Pershing, 90mm TD Jackson, Cromwell, Sherman crocodile and Jumbo are as you have found out sadly lacking Just have to find an equivalent as best you can 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkmath Posted February 8, 2005 Author Share Posted February 8, 2005 How many these tanks have been used in historical battle in Northwest European Theater? Did the Axis used Kingtiger in Normandy Campaign? In Ardennes? Why is there Churchill crocdile included but not the Sherman Croc.? I want know what historical fact can be reproduced with realism? I think that airborne ops. and post-Ardennes (because the Volksturm and late German and Allies Tanks)theatre cannot be played with historical accuracy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David I Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 Darkmath, BFC made the decision to only provide those vehicles and troops that actually served "in Theater". I don't think that they took into account that the improvements in CMAK vs CMBO would prompt players to do NWE scenarios. DavidI 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSX Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 Its a pity they didnt, I really think they would have got more sales out of it to commit to the whole of Western Europe 44-45. Plenty of space on that 2nd disk after all. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted February 8, 2005 Share Posted February 8, 2005 Originally posted by Darkmath: Did the Axis used Kingtiger in Normandy Campaign?Yes, but in very limited numbers. Click here, then click on 'GHQ Pz units', then 503. s. Pz. Abt. I do know that a Brit Battalion (5th DKLI?) captured one during the battle for Mount Pinchon. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkmath Posted February 9, 2005 Author Share Posted February 9, 2005 Thanks for this weblink,Kingfish. Is there another link about Allied and Axis tank battalion organizations in the Ardennes theater? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richie Posted February 9, 2005 Share Posted February 9, 2005 Lots... You could try here. You could also try reading 'Jochen Peiper, Panzer Leader' by Michael Reynolds. Lot's of accurate descriptions of tank strengths and locations for the Ardennes in there! Richie 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkmath Posted February 9, 2005 Author Share Posted February 9, 2005 With CMAK units, in realistic terms, the majority of the battles and operations in Normandy theatre can be played. Since there are no Sherman W+ (In cmbo, the model is the same that the sherman W, what make easier programming.So why BTF team did not include them, even if it is out of CMAK scope,in the last patch?),Sherman Jumbo (can be simulated with SHerman W+, i think), Crocodile, Pershings,90mm TD, Cromwells, King tiger and Puma, only a few historical battles can be simulated after september 1944. [ February 11, 2005, 08:50 AM: Message edited by: Darkmath ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David I Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 Darkmath: "On CMAK, only Normandy campaign seems to be historically well simulated." Please elucidate. DavidI 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Russian Posted February 10, 2005 Share Posted February 10, 2005 Originally posted by Darkmath: On CMAK, only Normandy campaign seems to be historically well simulated. If you go the Scenario Depot you will find many CMAK scenario for the NW European theater done by HSG. We have scenarios for Normandy, the Battle of the Bulge, the Ruhr Pocket, Canadian and British forces too. NW Europe is not left out only limited to a small extent. Take a look and see if any of our scenarios may be what you are looking for. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkmath Posted February 12, 2005 Author Share Posted February 12, 2005 ...Without forgetting Volksturm, recoiless rifle. In short, here is a list of some units missing in CMAK (Take your breath deeply ) Allies : US Army Shermans W+ class Sherman M4A3E2 Jumbo Pershings class M36 Jacksons class Sherman Crocodile US american Recoiless rifles Commonwealth Cromwells class Comet Challenger Post 1943 British Airborne 14 inches Battleships guns (still "out of scope" ) Axis :Puma class Lynx class KIngtiger and JagdTiger Sicherung infantry Volksturm infantry [ February 12, 2005, 09:18 AM: Message edited by: Darkmath ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune Posted February 12, 2005 Share Posted February 12, 2005 You are missing the point. They are not missing. CMAK covers the battles in Italy and North Africa, and those units were not present. CMAK was not meant to be a replacement for CMBO. Rune 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treeburst155 Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 ....and as a North Africa/Italy game, the grogs would blast the game as unrealistic if those late war NWE units were in it. Treeburst155 out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkmath Posted February 13, 2005 Author Share Posted February 13, 2005 I agree. However, in map editor, there is a terrien element called "tall hedge". Are there bocage-like hedgerows in Italy? I know there is bocage in North West Europe, but in Italy... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted February 13, 2005 Share Posted February 13, 2005 Originally posted by Kingfish: I do know that a Brit Battalion (5th DKLI?) captured one during the battle for Mount Pinchon. 5th DCLI. One destroyed, one captured I believe. Pictures are here: Tan Museum Library 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nidan1 Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 Something hauntingly familiar about Darkmath..... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanok Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 Originally posted by Treeburst155: ....and as a North Africa/Italy game, the grogs would blast the game as unrealistic if those late war NWE units were in it. Treeburst155 out. For BFC to have made more money in sales, and for more people to better enjoy the game, I'd have preferred to have the "missing" units included and put up with a few whining self-proclaimed grogs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 "...there is a terrien element called "tall hedge". Are there bocage-like hedgerows in Italy?" In CMAK 'tall hedges' are most often used for fencing around a villa or in city landscaping, not really for separating small fields like Normandy bocage. I think it was mostly included as a courtesy to Normandy scenario designers, and in July (around Operation Cobra) U.S. tanks are able to move through tall hedges as though they had Culin headgecutters attached - which they wouldn't in Italy. This little detail came as a bit of a surprise to me playing the Germans in an Italian QB scenario. About 'missing' KTs in CMAK. Hey, there's also missing Pz38Ts (my favorites), missing Pumas, missing Sturmtigers, missing M1A1 Abrams and T72 MBTs. How DARE they produce a game that fails to include every tank type that we could possibly desire - regardless of context! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSX Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 You are missing the point. They are not missing. CMAK covers the battles in Italy and North Africa, and those units were not present. CMAK was not meant to be a replacement for CMBO. Exactly, but the 44-45 NW Europe units could have been, and by including the missing units in a patch, or add on even. They could have completed the circle, and made more money at the same time. I for one wuld buy an addon etitled CMAK - NW Europe 44-45. Im sure others are the same. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted February 14, 2005 Share Posted February 14, 2005 Darkmath, don't know if you're aware of this or not, but you can change dates in the editor while purchasing stuff - not for QBs, but for premade scenarios. So you can work around some of the limitations as far as dates, but of course as you've guessed, cannot include missing equipment. Some nationalities are well off. Every piece of equipment the Canadians used in Normandy, the Channel coast, The Netherlands, Belgium and Germany is available in CM:AK. (In fact, infantry squads incorrectly have the Sten Gun in CM:AK, which was correct for NW Europe and not Italy). The British are close also. The Cromwell was only used, IIRC, in armoured recce regiments of the armoured divisions in NW Europe. Otherwise, I think their equipment is relatively complete also. King Tigers were a rarity - the 4th Canadian Armoured Division didn't meet one until Holland in October 1944 (if I remember my SAR history correctly), and I think most CW fighting for the course of the NW Europe war is possible - excepting LVTs, Buffaloes, and other amphibious stuff which is not in CM in any form in any event (ditto Sherman Crabs, etc.) I think you will find a great number of NW Europe situations available, and using the QB generator will yield you realistic situations also. Be sure to specify Dirt, Italy, for ground type and location. You can also change the bmps for the buildings, trees, etc. to make them more central European. As far as "bocage" goes, it wasn't handled realistically in CMBO by any stretch of the imagination, so there is no real loss there, either. Inventive scenario designers have worked around that, but the use of the "Rhino" or "Culins hedgerow device" won't be simulated. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apache Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 Re the NW Europe theatre battles on SD for CMAK, is the authour HSG? Did a search under Author and returned nothing?? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apache Posted February 19, 2005 Share Posted February 19, 2005 Cancel above - found them. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.