How do you knock out a Tiger with 2 hand grenades

[Michael Withstand]

Hi evryone

I was playin 2 pounders and a Tiger scenario when one of my Tiger was immobilized after the first grenades throw. The 2nd knocked it out. Then the Brits captured my vet Tiger crews.

How do you knock out a Tiger tank just with a single hand grenades? Let me guess the bottom part?

I know this is a classic question. perhaps has been asked too many times. but i'd like to hear interesting comments on this. Thx

[Kingfish]

The single hand grenade you see being thrown is actually several hand grenades, just like a single ammo point being fired is really several weapons doing the firing.

[Andreas]

Actually, AIUI the throwing of the handgrenade is just a visual representation of a close assault on a vehicle.

How to knock a Tiger out with one: drop it through the hatch.

All the best

Andreas

[The_Enigma]

Ive always wondered, what would happen if you rolled one into the barrel, a nice boom or nothing?

[MikeyD]

In my imagination it was a grenade rolled onto the engine deck, splinter manages to get through the engine grate and K.O. the fuel pump, cut spark plug wires, or something small like that. Something that might be fixable in ten minutes in depot but kills the vehicle in the field.

[bitchen frizzy]

Originally posted by the_enigma:

Ive always wondered, what would happen if you rolled one into the barrel, a nice boom or nothing?

Can a grenade set off an HE round? I think the answer is no, but if it could, and the gun was loaded with HE that could be pretty exciting - if the grenade didn't get stuck and actually rolled or slid down to the breech.

The grenade fragments and damage to the inside of the barrel just might cause the gun to backfire next time it was fired if the crew didn't swab the barrel first, and that would also make a nice boom.

[Bert Hamoen]

Are you sure it were indeed handgrenades ?

In the scenario "Two pounders and Tigers" the british side has engineers with satchelcharges. When I played this scenario myself in a PBEM they took out one of my Tigers with their charges.

[MikeyD]

I remember when the game first came out I was lamenting the lack of decent anti-tank capabilities for Brits in pre pre-spigot mortar battles. Soon thereafter I had my Stug easily K.O.'d by those 'defenseless' grenade-throwing Brits.

[Michael Withstand]

I'm sure it was hand grenades that were thrown at least that is what i saw(animation of hand grenades being thrown).

So here's the list of possibilities:

So a couple hand grenades thrown onto the engine deck might knock out a Tiger.

A few thrown into the barrel might damage the gun.

A few rolled under the bottom plating might knocked it out too.

Feels like David against Goliath when hand grenades capable of knocking out a Tiger.

[McIvan]

Andreas is on the money....it's a representation of the squad close assaulting the Tiger. Who knows what gear they had? What it doesn't represent is an actual hand grenade being thrown from a distance.

[bitchen frizzy]

Actually throwing grenades into the barrel would be quite a trick. That's just a fun "what if?".

[Broompatrol]

I find it easier to shoot them from a distance rather than try and run them over.

Perhaps, someone stuck a potato up the tailpipe?

[JasonC]

My favorite cross check on the sheer fantasy this subject tends to arose is to scan all the US Congressional Medal of Honor citations to see which of the real deal uberheros actually ever pulled it off. The answer is basically it doesn't happen.

There is one citation, Donald Rudolph, that features an operating tank KOed by a hand grenade. It is a light Japanese tank in the Philippine islands and the grenade is Willy Pete.

There is one further citation in which a tank is finished off by a grenade down the hatch, but after it was first immobilized by a bazooka shot to the tracks, then hit again in the turret by the same bazooka, then the crew abandoned and were shot. So it was purely an equipment spiking thing in that case.

Then there is Horace Thorne, who finished off a crippled Pz III, which had been immobilized (at least) by US light tanks. He first shot 2 of the crew as they attempted to bail. He then managed to toss 2 grenades through open hatches after that, killing the 2 remaining men too scared to get out. Not exactly cricket.

There are 2 further instances of bazooka-less infantry anti-tank feats earning the CMH. One was Henry Warner, a 57mm ATG gunner who already hit several before his gun was KOed. He shot the exposed tank commander of an additional tank with his .45, at a range of 5 yards.

But the original Sergeant Rock best in show infantry AT performance was by a 1st LT, David Waybur. He was leading a 3 jeep recon at night when they got cut off by 4 German tanks. He was already seriously wounded. He then stood up in the middle of a road and dueled a moving German tank coming straight toward him with nothing but a tompson submachinegun. He capped the driver - slightly CE to see where he was going no doubt - at 30 yards range, and the tank ran off the side of a bridge and crashed into the stream at his feet. His patrol got away and he got the ribbon.

lol.

But no, potatos in the tailpipe would certainly merit such citations - "seize a rocket launcher" is approximately as common a phrase in these as "above and beyond the call of duty" - but they flat are not there.

The above is as close as it actually gets. There aren't even any instances of tanks KOed by rifle grenades in the hero dispatches. (Naturally this establishes a threshold on rates rather than "ever" - not everything is seen or would etc) But pretty much it takes a real AT weapon.

[Guest Mike]

Fortunately however there are awards other than the CMOH that do have citations giving examples - eg

the Victoria Cross :

LEAKEY, Nigel Gray. (reg No. 728).

Sergeant. 1st/6th Battalion. King's African Rifles.

London Gazetted on 15th November 1945.

Born on 1st January 1913 in Kenya.

Killed in action on 19th May, 1941 near Colito, Abyssinia.

Remembered on East Africa Memorial, Nairobi, Kenya.

Digest of Citation reads:

Near Colito in Abyssinia, 19th May, 1941, two Allied companies had established a precarious bridgehead against strong opposition. A sudden counter-attack, by the Italians, was made with light and medium tanks, threatening to overrun the two companies of the King's African Rifles. One of the tanks advanced. from the rear, on troops who had no anti-tank weapons. In the face of withering fire from enemy machine guns, Sergeant Leakey leapt on top of the tank, wrenched open the turret and shot all the crew with the exception of the driver, whom he forced to drive into cover. Failing to get the tank's gun to fire, he charged across ground that was being raked by machine gun and shell fire from the other Italian tanks. Along with two other Askari and an African CSM he stalked the other tanks. Two tanks passed, and Sergeant Leakey clambered onto the third opened the turret and shot one of the crew, before being shot off the turret by the machine gun of a following tank. Throughout the action he displayed Valour of the highest order and his action broke up the Italian tank attack..

and

UPHAM, Charles Hazlitt. (Reg. No.1246)

Second Lieutenant (later Captain) 20th Battalion 2nd New Zealand Expeditionary Force. (Canterbury Regt.)

London Gazetted on 14th October 1941 and 26th September 1945 (BAR)

Born on 21st September 1908 at Christchurch N.Z.

Died on 21st November 1994 at Christchurch N.Z.

Memorials at HQ Dunedin RSA and in the Quadrangle of Christ's College, Christchurch, N.Z.

Citation for BAR reads:

At El Ruweisat Ridge in the Western Desert, on 14/15 July 1942, Captain Upham, in spite of having been wounded twice, insisted on remaining with his company . Just before dawn he led them in a determined attack, and, after fierce fighting, captured the objective. He personally destroyed a German tank, along with various guns and vehicles, by using hand grenades with deadly effect. His arm having been broken by a machine-gun bullet did not prevent him from. continuing to dominate the situation and when eventually, weak from loss of blood, he had to go and have his wounds attended. After treatment he returned immediately to his company, remaining with them until he was again so severely wounded that he was unable to carry on.

[ May 11, 2007, 10:40 PM: Message edited by: Stalin's Organist ]

[John Kettler]

JasonC,

Had semiheard of the first example you gave, but the last two were wholly new and amazing to me. The antitank gunner's story reminds me of a BoB message in which an American commander reported a German tank's gun barrel was inside his CP! As for capping a German TC with a .45 at 5 meter range, all hail the M1911A1! Top that Clint!

Stalin's Organist,

The first example you gave is precisely the basic reason U.S. AFVs are fitted with combat locks these days. Few guests are more unwelcome in an AFV than a live hostile grenade. Would love to know the specifics of the Ruweisat Ridge grenade attack.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Baron von Beergut]

I had a lucky grenade kill in a CMBB game a couple years ago against Will Bill from Blitz. He had a Tiger stalking my troops that were pretty beaten up. I had a squad with only two survivors equipped with rifles and grenades hiding near him. They attacked and immobilized the tank which then bailed and I captured the crew - we were both amazed at my luck!

[John Kettler]

Baron von Beergut,

Was that rifles and hand grenades or rifles, rifle grenades and hand grenades? I got a clean, demoralizing rifle grenade kill via a weak spot hit

(pistol port?) against a Tiger I's turret side back in the CMBO Beta Demo days. It was demoralizing because that tank had to enter the town in order to take the VL, and I killed it right on the outskirts. If you took out a Tiger I with "pineapples" I'm really impressed, especially with just two men!

Regards,

John Kettler

[Guest Mike]

An account of Ruweisat Ridge is here. It doesn't have specifics of Uphams tank kill, but does mention at least one case of someone geting onto a tank, prying a hatch open and putting a grenade inside it, as well as a passing mention of sticky grenades being used successfully.

[Cabe Booth]

I had a tiger kill last week, The guy were even pinned in a building, the tiger parked in a an alley about 10 feet away outside. Mind you these are brit '44 rife, no AT grenades or explosives. Fist hit immobilized it, then the crew abandoned it next turn and were shot to death. I was surprised. Never had seen that before. Really make infantry valuable when u know they can pull stuff like that off even without AT weaponry.

They were either crack or veteran troops, but they were in a bad way from stug fire on the building. The tiger wasn't firing on them as he was worried about a VC firefly parked around corner in a standoff of LOS while the stug was set up in an alley about 50 yards behind trying to keep m,e pinned and obliterate the building.. He was very upset when it happened,it had never been performed on him either. So we all learned a new thing that round, just glad it was a tiger for me and nada for him.

Next round is when My AVRE preformed a tank kill from a airburst over the Stug on a roof awning hit dierectly above the STug. A very educational game for all of us.

[John Kettler]

Cabe Booth,

I know the Germans suffered a significant decline in armor quality as the war wore on, but if a "fist hit immobilized it," then perhaps the situation was much worse than we'd previously believed? Couldn't resist!

On a more serious note, sounds like the Tiger didn't use the "dread Naverboogie" against your already battered men.

Regards,

John Kettler

[John Kettler]

Stalin's Organist,

If only the U.S. Army Green book series made such great reading! This makes that seem like gargling with sand. The amount, diversity, and intensity of action described in the link from the NZ official history is remarkable. Upham was captured later in the action, and the account is the first I've ever seen of combat use of the sticky bomb, let alone it's having racked up two kills in one small piece of the action.

Regards,

John Kettler

[Baron von Beergut]

Originally posted by John Kettler:

Baron von Beergut,

Was that rifles and hand grenades or rifles, rifle grenades and hand grenades? I got a clean, demoralizing rifle grenade kill via a weak spot hit

(pistol port?) against a Tiger I's turret side back in the CMBO Beta Demo days. It was demoralizing because that tank had to enter the town in order to take the VL, and I killed it right on the outskirts. If you took out a Tiger I with "pineapples" I'm really impressed, especially with just two men!

Regards,

John Kettler

Yes - it was just with pineapples. The squad was nearly wiped out, had routed and recovered, not in command with their now dead leader. They were regular quality Russians, just two men with two rifles and two handgrenades. No riflegrenades or molotovs. I think in the end he still beat me in that battle, but it was still an amazing piece of luck!

[John Kettler]

Baron von Beergut,

Gutted squad recovered from rout and no HQ? Awesome! No wonder the Russians won the war!

Regards,

John Kettler

[Cabe Booth]

well I still have the game cam, I was trying to make sense of it at the time.

The tank is sitting there with brits 10 feet away prone on bottom floor.

The little yellow or white word "hit" comes up on the tank and then I hear the guys congratulating one another.. I was under the impression that they had immobilized it and they bailed, are you saying that they knocked it out? Because it didn't say knocked out, it said abandoned when it was all over the next turn.

Naverboogie?

you talking about those little ap burst shells that they launch? Wouldn't have done much since guys were inside building bottom floor, or are you refering to something else?

[Vergeltungswaffe]

Yes Naverboogie = Nahverteidigungswaffe, which no one likes to type, even me.