Holman Posted March 22, 2004 Share Posted March 22, 2004 On the other hand, it has never before been the case that an older game in the series could supply models to a newer game. (There was no need for an Achilles or M-10 in CMBB, after all.) It all depends on how much work is involved in making the older models available... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted March 22, 2004 Share Posted March 22, 2004 Originally posted by Soddball: Ditto the Cromwell - of all the units "missing" from CM:AK (obviously not ACTUALLY missing since they didn't see service), the Cromwells would make the biggest difference for me. I couldn't agree more. Imagine a CMAK conversion of the Villers-Bocage Op (with permission from the original author of course) but with 'armor only' covered arcs, and no 'Stuart kills Tiger with one shot penetration of weak point'. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted March 22, 2004 Share Posted March 22, 2004 No, the Tigers would just get butchered by Fireflies hiding behind Bocage, just like they did in almost all of the times I played it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pzman Posted March 22, 2004 Share Posted March 22, 2004 Originally posted by Martyr: (There was no need for an Achilles or M-10 in CMBB, after all.) That's why they aren't in CMBB. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Russian Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Originally posted by Bogdan: ...well yes but, please consider the case of Jagtigers in CMBB. No Jagdpanzer VI saw combat in the east during 1944-45 (only on the western front) and the vehicle IS modelled in the game ! Note this quote on the Jagdtiger on the Eastern Front. The number of Jagdtigers produced was adequate to equip two units, schwere Panzerjager Abteilung 653 and schwere Panzerjager Abteilung 512. sPzJagAbt 512 was formed in the Summer of 1944 and was composed of two companies (1st company was commanded by Albert Ernst and became Kampfgruppe Ernst, 2nd company by Otto Carius) and was commanded by Major Scherf. Elements of sPzJagAbt 512 took part in the Operation "Fruhlingerswachen" in Hungary (part of VI SS Panzer Army), and then in the defence of the Fatherland on both Western and Eastern Front. Enjoy. Panther Commander 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Originally posted by Bogdan: Please tell me how many Jagtigers and Sturmtiger were built. Then, how many KT ?Jagdtiger - 77 produced Sturmmorser Tiger - 18 converted from Tiger Tiger 2 - 489 produced 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pzman Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Notice that the Sturmtiger and Jagdtiger aren't in CMAK either. Still if it didn't see action in Italy, there is no need for it in the game. If you want KT blowing up Shermans CMBO does that nicely... although not as graphicly pleaseing. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
samurai man Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Yes... yes... CMX2 please please... more... more... But for now can I please have some King Tigers in glorious CMAK if at all possible (though I think it's probably not) and some Pumas. Though I can substitute PSW 233s or 232s for the Pumas, the Tiger I just doesn't feel right in place of the Tiger II for my pending 4000X8000 size operation of the Stoumont-La Gleize-TroisPonts-Stavelot sector of the Battle of the Bulge. If I have to wait for CMX2 could I also have an expanded battle map (say 6000x12000 or larger), a way for the "west-side-friendly: defender" in the operation to launch counter attacks from the North and South as well as the West, and a way for whole battlegroups to get "cut-off." These additions in CMX2 would be a dream come true (fuel limits and depots, as well as engineers that can blow up bridges would push it over the top). Thanks! -- I'm just a gamer not a historian or a programmer. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheCrow Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Nobody speaks about Flammpanzer III, and it take action at Italy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmerch Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 still I think of having the option to choose from all units in the game as a good idea. escpecially for scenario designers. to use such a think in QB might only be intersting to fight hyothetical battles from different years. the implemantation of such a feature wouldn't be so difficult, i guess. however, i don't think that will happen in a patch. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 the implemantation of such a feature wouldn't be so difficult, i guess.Actually I don't think it would be easy to impelement. Factors such as ammunition availability are month based. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holman Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Panzerman says: Notice that the Sturmtiger and Jagdtiger aren't in CMAK either. Still if it didn't see action in Italy, there is no need for it in the game. If you want KT blowing up Shermans CMBO does that nicely... although not as graphicly pleaseing. But that's not it. The engine has changed enough (new movement commands, new ballistic routines, covered arcs, etc.) that we want to be able to do the European theater with CMAK too. Considering that CMx2 is at least a couple of years off, the thought of playing Normandy, Mortain, the Siegfried Line, Arnheim, the Bulge, etc. in CMAK is pretty attractive. If the inclusion of the few more necessary vehicles (ported from CMBB and CMAK) is feasible, I hope that BTS will consider it. [ March 23, 2004, 08:15 AM: Message edited by: Martyr ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
junk2drive Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 again my suggestion for a pay for expantion pack. if i was trying to pay the bills for two years. a west front pack for cmak would sell. cmak could stay true to history, would stop some whinning i guess book sales are easier. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 It is not feasible and it will not happen. Coding vehicles into the game is one of the most time consuming areas, and one of the "features" that will be added into CMX2, the ability to add vehicles easier. It al;ready takes three people to add a model in in executable. CMAK was never supposed to replace CMBO. The possibility of making Western Europe battles was considered, and some capacity was given for people to play with. The requests for new things would never stop... King Tigers, then Cromwells, then the TO&E of Western Europe. So, you will see a patch to fix broken things, you will not see the King Tiger nor the Cromwell. Rune [ March 23, 2004, 10:38 AM: Message edited by: rune ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bogdan Posted March 23, 2004 Author Share Posted March 23, 2004 Originally posted by Panther Commander: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Bogdan: ...well yes but, please consider the case of Jagtigers in CMBB. No Jagdpanzer VI saw combat in the east during 1944-45 (only on the western front) and the vehicle IS modelled in the game ! Note this quote on the Jagdtiger on the Eastern Front. The number of Jagdtigers produced was adequate to equip two units, schwere Panzerjager Abteilung 653 and schwere Panzerjager Abteilung 512. sPzJagAbt 512 was formed in the Summer of 1944 and was composed of two companies (1st company was commanded by Albert Ernst and became Kampfgruppe Ernst, 2nd company by Otto Carius) and was commanded by Major Scherf. Elements of sPzJagAbt 512 took part in the Operation "Fruhlingerswachen" in Hungary (part of VI SS Panzer Army), and then in the defence of the Fatherland on both Western and Eastern Front. Enjoy. Panther Commander </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stoffel Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 A lot of battles in the ardennes were interesting enough,a lot of them didnt have King tigers. At the moment I am waiting for the final testresults for my battle about the 110th inf regiment in Clervaux/marnach area. No kingtigers involved... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Nope it can't be considered as a fix, the base code is the same, but the models are different. This means the King Tiger is NOT in the code. Again, adding a vehicle is very time consuming. There are no seperate models per se, all are in the executable. Which was designed that way, btw. Also remember there is one, count them, one programmer. Rune 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Russian Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Originally posted by Bogdan: Thanks for this usefull remark, Panther Commander, but this subject has already been analysed by old grognards around there. It looks that this kind of vehicle MAY have seen some fights against russians in the late stages of WW2, but sources are a bit poor. Anyway, I prefer you to read the whole thread in order to clarify a bit the situation. Enjoy. Posted by Martyr : Thanks, I am looking for a quote I found that showed the JT's with the 3rd SS Panzer Division in Poland in November 1944. I did a lot of research on whether they were there or not and like several of the quotes from the previous thread (Thanks for sharing that with me) there is no concrete evidence but there is some question as to whether they may have been. Panther Commander 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sirocco Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 Originally posted by rune: It already takes three people to add a mole in in executable.There are moles in CMAK?! :eek: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rune Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 LOL...something had to offset those darn uber hamstertruppen. Rune 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bogdan Posted March 23, 2004 Author Share Posted March 23, 2004 Originally posted by rune: Nope it can't be considered as a fix, the base code is the same, but the models are different. This means the King Tiger is NOT in the code. Again, adding a vehicle is very time consuming. There are no seperate models per se, all are in the executable. Which was designed that way, btw. Also remember there is one, count them, one programmer. Rune Bad news 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted March 23, 2004 Share Posted March 23, 2004 If you really really want to play with KTs you always could purchase CMBB and fight them against Lend-Lease Shermans, Churchills, halftracks, Bren carriers, Stuarts, and Valentines! I suspect one reason why they left the KT out of CMAK was simply so they could say "Just buy the other darned game!" You go to CMBB for KTs and IS-2s, and you go to CMAK for Lees and Grants! [ March 23, 2004, 02:57 PM: Message edited by: MikeyD ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 I think I can add some clarification about the Jagdtigers east question, specifically the uncertainty about s.PzJgr 512. On the other thread you will find the basic account, that the unit was formed in January 45, got its Jagdtigers in February, and were sent west to Remagen. I believe that is all correct. But confusion arises from an earlier date for the formation of the unit, and the claim that part of it fought in Hungary. I think the issue was two name changes and one equipment change, the equipment change coinciding with the second name change not the first. To understand it, you have to follow the "pre-history" of the unit. In early 45, sPzJgr 512 was formed from 1 and 2 companies of sPz 501. 3 company did not have vehicles and remained in the rear. sPz 501 had King Tigers before this. It got its KTs in the summer of 1944, and took them to southeastern Poland in August - one of the first large scale uses of them. It also received a 4th company of Tiger Is from sPz 509, and fought in the east through November. Then its remainder was redesignated sPz 424 and assigned to 24 Pz korps. Which was in Slovakia and then around Budapest - not in the early 45 counterattack period but in the late 44 defense, when the Russians first took it. So this obscure redesignation, preceding unit did serve in Hungary. But it did not have Jagdtigers yet. With only remnants left in January, the crews were sent back to switch over to the Jagdtiger. The unit designation was then changed to sPzJgr 512. They did not have enough for all 3 companies, and equipped only 1&2 only by February 1945 - long after they had left Hungary. Their next combat use was in the west against the Remagen bridgehead. For what it is worth. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bogdan Posted March 24, 2004 Author Share Posted March 24, 2004 Originally posted by MikeyD: I suspect one reason why they left the KT out of CMAK was simply so they could say "Just buy the other darned game!" You go to CMBB for KTs and IS-2s, and you go to CMAK for Lees and Grants! You're probably right ! Posted by JasonC : I think I can add some clarification about the Jagdtigers east question, specifically the uncertainty about s.PzJgr 512. On the other thread you will find the basic account, that the unit was formed in January 45, got its Jagdtigers in February, and were sent west to Remagen. I believe that is all correct. But confusion arises from an earlier date for the formation of the unit, and the claim that part of it fought in Hungary. I think the issue was two name changes and one equipment change, the equipment change coinciding with the second name change not the first. To understand it, you have to follow the "pre-history" of the unit. In early 45, sPzJgr 512 was formed from 1 and 2 companies of sPz 501. 3 company did not have vehicles and remained in the rear. sPz 501 had King Tigers before this. It got its KTs in the summer of 1944, and took them to southeastern Poland in August - one of the first large scale uses of them. It also received a 4th company of Tiger Is from sPz 509, and fought in the east through November. Then its remainder was redesignated sPz 424 and assigned to 24 Pz korps. Which was in Slovakia and then around Budapest - not in the early 45 counterattack period but in the late 44 defense, when the Russians first took it. So this obscure redesignation, preceding unit did serve in Hungary. But it did not have Jagdtigers yet. With only remnants left in January, the crews were sent back to switch over to the Jagdtiger. The unit designation was then changed to sPzJgr 512. They did not have enough for all 3 companies, and equipped only 1&2 only by February 1945 - long after they had left Hungary. Their next combat use was in the west against the Remagen bridgehead. ...then, did Jagdigers ever fought in the eastern front ? :confused: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonC Posted March 24, 2004 Share Posted March 24, 2004 No, other than perhaps a few right at the end as both fronts came together or something. But not from the 512 sPzJgrAbt being sent to Hungary, as some seem to have thought. Those went to Remagen. The predecessor unit that was in Hungary still had turreted King Tigers, not Jagdtigers. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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