Malakovski Posted March 6, 2005 Share Posted March 6, 2005 Originally posted by Battlefront.com: Malakovski </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Therefore, if TCP/IP play works, asynchronous play will work.In theory, if PBEM is not considered part of this statement, this is correct. And as I've said since almost the very beginning, we are likely to have some sort of backdoor feature to support something like this if PBEM is not practical. But the loud, whiney voices of the "B" crowd have been fixated on the fact that we will not guarantee PBEM support since the only way to do that is to hobble the game design right now. All other things appear to keep zipping right on by them. Steve </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalem Posted March 6, 2005 Share Posted March 6, 2005 Originally posted by Malakovski: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Battlefront.com: Malakovski </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Therefore, if TCP/IP play works, asynchronous play will work.In theory, if PBEM is not considered part of this statement, this is correct. And as I've said since almost the very beginning, we are likely to have some sort of backdoor feature to support something like this if PBEM is not practical. But the loud, whiney voices of the "B" crowd have been fixated on the fact that we will not guarantee PBEM support since the only way to do that is to hobble the game design right now. All other things appear to keep zipping right on by them. Steve </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flammenwerfer Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 Steve said the new game would not be hobbled, and it would provide a strong, lasting experience... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakovski Posted March 7, 2005 Author Share Posted March 7, 2005 Originally posted by Flammenwerfer: Steve said the new game would not be hobbled, and it would provide a strong, lasting experience... He also wrote many, many times about how PBEM was secondary, not critical, up on the chopping block, that only grogs and whiners want it in, and you had to read between the lines a bit to see it was only email as a medium that was the problem, not that type of play in principle. The rumor spread that "PBEM may be out" and that got people upset, and upset people don't read between the lines very well. Then other people see all the people upset, and assume there's something to be really upset about. The word "PBEM" is kinda synonymous with async play at this point, since that the only way anyone does it. So when I saw a rumor going around that PBEM was in jeopardy, and a lot of the old guard up in arms, it was pretty easy to make the mistake. I started a new thread for the benefit of those who might have made the same mistake, and left the PBEM threads before what was really the case became apparent. [ March 06, 2005, 05:42 PM: Message edited by: Malakovski ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanok Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 I think there's something in the midst of the pbem threads that Steve missed badly. I don't believe people were being whiney, insane, stupid, or any other ill-chosen insults Steve tossed out so flagrantly. Because of the CM games, many of us have established a comaraderie and a community with other CMers. Look at how active these forums are after all these years. There are other forums and gaming groups based on CM. There are mod sites. Because of CM, and because of pbem, we've come together to enjoy the games. I've established a group of opponents that are reliable and worthy opponents. I've gotten to know many of them as personally as is possible through the net and consider them to be online friends. I've helped some of them learn the game and some of them have helped me. We wouldn't have had any of that without CM and pbem. Many people also feel a kinship with CM and BFC that is similar to being a fan of a sports team. They feel like they're part of the team, even though they're really not. Because so many of us have this, when it came out that pbem was not important to BFC's Big Picture, people felt they could possibly lose this community. They didn't want that to happen, so they voiced their views. The more they voiced, the more Steve responded. There were things said on both sides that were inappropriate, some of them downright insulting. Just because people aren't knowledgeable about computers or game design, or because they didn't fully understand what Steve meant, or aren't privy to BFC's secrets, doesn't mean they're the rude things Steve called them. People enjoy very much the groups CM has enabled them to have. They just didn't want to lose that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 Hear hear. What he said... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nidan1 Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 Originally posted by Malakovski: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Flammenwerfer: Steve said the new game would not be hobbled, and it would provide a strong, lasting experience... He also wrote many, many times about how PBEM was secondary, not critical, up on the chopping block, that only grogs and whiners want it in, and you had to read between the lines a bit to see it was only email as a medium that was the problem, not that type of play in principle. The rumor spread that "PBEM may be out" and that got people upset, and upset people don't read between the lines very well. Then other people see all the people upset, and assume there's something to be really upset about. The word "PBEM" is kinda synonymous with async play at this point, since that the only way anyone does it. So when I saw a rumor going around that PBEM was in jeopardy, and a lot of the old guard up in arms, it was pretty easy to make the mistake. I started a new thread for the benefit of those who might have made the same mistake, and left the PBEM threads before what was really the case became apparent. </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakovski Posted March 7, 2005 Author Share Posted March 7, 2005 Originally posted by Nidan1: Well sunshine, now that you have broken all of this good news, and have calmed the fears of many an EMAIL player of the present form of Combat Mission, you could find the time to send me back some form of asynchronous response to our current battle. I'm not concerned about whether it travels at 56kbps or 1.5mgbps...JUST SEND IT PLEASE. Signed: your loyal, faithful, asynchronous aquaintance. Well, there's just no satisfying some people, is there? I spend a few evenings here on the board, slinging handfuls of poo at Steve on behalf of your asynchronous rights (yes, yes, they were never really in danger, whatever) and you can't handle a little delay in turns? But speaking of delays and PBEM and camaraderie, dear Nidan here is a case in point. We are now in the midst of a gripping, seven battle operation, the first turn of which was emailed in December of 2003. We've been playing the same op for over a year, and I never before thought something developing over such a long time could be gripping, but CM has enlightened me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nidan1 Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 You and I could be the poster boys of the joys of asynchronous liasons, my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakovski Posted March 7, 2005 Author Share Posted March 7, 2005 Originally posted by Nidan1: You and I could be the poster boys of the joys of asynchronous liasons, my friend. That would make one frightening poster, but true, very true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieseltaylor Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 To think - if you and your opponent were playing in fast and trusted mode [PBEMHelper] not only would you have finished by now but you would have enjoyed it more : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakovski Posted March 7, 2005 Author Share Posted March 7, 2005 Originally posted by dieseltaylor: To think - if you and your opponent were playing in fast and trusted mode [PBEMHelper] not only would you have finished by now but you would have enjoyed it more : ) Helper shmelper. I don't need no stinkin' helper. Hell, sometimes I copy out the txt turn file longhand and mail to Nidan in a big manila envelope, just for jollies! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 Sanok, I think there's something in the midst of the pbem threads that Steve missed badly. I don't believe people were being whiney, insane, stupid, or any other ill-chosen insults Steve tossed out so flagrantly.Boy, if there were ever a "Factual Distortion of the Year Award" I'd be nominating you for sure! You seem to overlook the fact that all my "ill-chosen insults" were the result of the "whiney, insane, stupid" stuff being hurtled at me for simply stating that PBEM might possibly not happen. Don't kid yourselves guys... I've said the same things over and over again since the very beginning. I don't see how it can be my fault that a small handfull of you needed over 400 posts of hubris to finally "get it". Everybody else seems to have gotten it much sooner, as evidenced by the numbers of people telling me to just lock up the threads and ignore the whiners. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 Malakovski, He also wrote many, many times about how PBEM was secondary, not critical, up on the chopping block, that only grogs and whiners want it in, and you had to read between the lines a bit to see it was only email as a medium that was the problem, not that type of play in principle.No, you had to actually read what I wrote. Everything you have finally come to realize was stated in plain and direct English. And you still haven't figured out that from the very beginning I said that I understand that PBEM is an important feature and has a lot of value, and because of that it would be supported if possible. What I refused to get roped into was the whole notion that it is the "only" way to play and that without it the game has no value and therefore there is no point in making it if there is no PBEM. That was a BS argument then, and it is still a BS argument now. Also, I'm very sorry if any of you were offended by the fact that I labeled you a vocal minority and that we would not have the game system held ransom to such a group. But facts are facts. Nothing wrong with being a minority, except for when they make demands as if they are a majority. We have always done right by the majority of CM fans and will continue to do so, whether it be on this issue or any other. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 Listening to a loud, rowdy and VERY vocal minority does not a good decision make. Now many here KNOW in their hearts the dissent and activism are (or can be) GOOD things. BUT when a minority of irrate folks believe they are actual stake holders, in a game that is little more than vaporware at this point, become loud, rude, immature and discourteous, it is GOOD and correct that someone call them out on their ill mannered behaviour! I for one am glad Steve did so. (Like the umpire says, "I just calls 'em as I sees 'em!") carry on.... -tom w [ March 07, 2005, 09:35 AM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakovski Posted March 7, 2005 Author Share Posted March 7, 2005 [thought better of it] [ March 07, 2005, 08:52 AM: Message edited by: Malakovski ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 ok -tom w [ March 07, 2005, 09:31 AM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Melnibone Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 I want to be like Bobby in Dallas...one day he woke up to find it had all been a dream Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakovski Posted March 7, 2005 Author Share Posted March 7, 2005 Originally posted by aka_tom_w: Didn't your mother ever tell you if you don't have something nice to say don't say anything at all? Have you ever noticed how when someone insults you, you become angry? Anyway, you were too quick, and got to that before I deleted it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 Malakovski, Have you ever noticed how when someone insults you, you become angry?Which is exactly why this whole hub-bub was completely unnecessary. Someone asked a very simple, straight forward question. I gave a simple straight forward answer. Next thing I know good 'ol Steve, the honest designer who brought you guys three great games, is being slammed left, right, and center. Heck, I think even the Anti-Christ was pushed down on the list to make room for me. And yet at the end of all this, when it has become crystal clear that I wasn't being listened too and people were overreacting, a few people are now trying to paint this whole debacle as somehow being my fault. Sorry... I just can't let that slide. Any insults that I hurtled out were a reaction to the unnecessary, counter productive, overly emotional, and factually divorced junk that was repeatedly slung my way. Sorry if you can't see it for what it is, but that's the truth of the matter. I'm sorry this turned into such a fecal storm, but I will take no responsibility for it either starting or continuing. I am but one person and you are a gaggle... I can't control what you guys do and yet I am obligated to respond to it. After nearly 7 years I've found that ignoring something like this only makes it worse (yes, this could have been worse). It simply amazes me that after all these years some of you guys, even the low numbered ones, don't understand the simple way I operate. You treat me with respect, I treat you with respect. Go for my throat and I'll aim to take your head off. Simple, straight forward, and honest way to operate in life as well as in this virtual world where far too many people think that they can dish it out witout being forced to take it right back. So... for those of you unprepared and unwilling to see me riled up... simple solution... keep your comments constructive and polite... and the rest will follow. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sanok Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 Originally posted by Battlefront.com: Sanok, </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />I think there's something in the midst of the pbem threads that Steve missed badly. I don't believe people were being whiney, insane, stupid, or any other ill-chosen insults Steve tossed out so flagrantly.Boy, if there were ever a "Factual Distortion of the Year Award" I'd be nominating you for sure! You seem to overlook the fact that all my "ill-chosen insults" were the result of the "whiney, insane, stupid" stuff being hurtled at me for simply stating that PBEM might possibly not happen. Steve </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flamingknives Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 Originally posted by Sanok: I think there's something in the midst of the pbem threads that Steve missed badly. I don't believe people were being whiney, insane, stupid, or any other ill-chosen insults Steve tossed out so flagrantly.I don't think that Steve missed that much. The amount of egotistical flak that was thrown up when it transpired that PBEM wasn't the first and formost concern for the new game was truly astounding. Given the information and explanations given out by Steve, you'd think that he was removing a junkie's heroin by the amount of unreasonableness going on. My 2 cents worth of petrol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ales Dvorak Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 Originally posted by Malakovski: The Only Way Worth Playing<font size=1></font size>Materialist. Love Alice™ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 There were insults? Damn, now I have to go read the rest of that thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars Posted March 7, 2005 Share Posted March 7, 2005 Before I go, was there any Nazi loving going on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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