The Bocage

[Mad Russian]

For all of you world travelers that have been to France and seen the bocage. What type of terrain is it? Are they farmers fields with crops in them? Or are they orchards? Maybe just small pastures for grazing cattle?

Please enlighten us.

Panther Commander

[...................................]

In the area I stayed (SW of Bayeux) it was predominantly pasture for cattle. Dairy farming is the major type of farming in Normandy, IIRC dead cattle were a common sight in 1944. The modern fields seemed to be much bigger than the '44 fields though, but there is plenty of bocage left to see.

[fabs]

All three. The feature that distingushes it is the enclosure of the fields by hedge banks. Frequently these enclose fields on one side and narrow lanes with another hedge-bank facing on the other, creating a sunken lane.

In Combat mission the hedge-banks are abstracted as tall hedges(CMAK) or bocage (CMBO). These obstacles represent them well enough for game purposes but are graphically inaccurate, as hedge-banks were earthen banks overgrown with shrubs and trees rather than "garden hedges" as they are depicted here.

The other feature was the size of the enclosed fields, which was relatively small with distances between hedge-banks of between 25 and 50 meters the norm.

[Wicky]

Bocage in D-Day BBC News

[junk2drive]

wicky, nice to see you. thanks for the link.

[Kobal2]

As for the crops that are enclosed in bocage, Normandy is known for it's butter and cheese (but is there any region of France not known for some cheese ? )(hence, grazing fields), and apple cider (hence orchards, though if I recall clearly you could also get apple trees in grazing fields). I don't know about wheat/barlow/corn, but I assume there must be - after all, Normandy was France's granary for quite some time, in medieval years.

Also, as Pheasant Plucker says, you musn't think of them as modern fields, horizon-to-horizon like - Normandy fields had stayed pretty much in their medieval state (remember, those were the days where tractors were still not that common), with each family having it's small parcel of land. Although I don't know for sure, I imagine they were rough squares with 100-200m sides average.

I agree with fabs that displaying bocage as hedges (or CMBO bocage, which as far as I know is just an oversized hedge) is not accurate - I'd rather have say a slim but sharp terrain elevation with tall pines/woods on top (which would make them impassable to vehicules - but are there any accounts of AFVs going right through it ? I'm not that much of a scholar myself)

[flamingknives]

Horizon to horizon fields are something you're unlikely to see in most of Europe, even today.

Bocage would also be highly irregular, with lots of small patches of woodland. In my experience, this sort of terrain usually crops up in quite hilly country too. The flatter stuff was more open, at least going by what I've seen of the terrain Totalize was fought over.

[Runyan99]

I found that fields of 100-200 meters were most common. Most were filled with low grazing grass (open terrain in CM) but some were ploughed.

I have always disliked the 'high hedges' modeling of hedgerows in CM. It doesn't do a good job of modeling what they were, and having now been to Normandy, I can tell you that hedgerows generally don't look like hedges at all, but instead are a line of trees covered in brush.

There are so many trees in fact that bocage country, seen from a distance of a few miles, looks like a forest. But of course it isn't a forest, it is lines and lines of hedgerows.

For this reason, I choose to model hedgerows in CM as open fields surrounded by lines of Woods, or light woods. I raise the line of trees 2.5m or 5m above the level of the surrounding ground as much as possible. As follows:

This does three things. First, it restricts movement by vehicles, provides cover for infantry using the hedgerow, and LOOKS like hedgerow country.

[ June 07, 2004, 03:41 PM: Message edited by: Runyan99 ]

[Runyan99]

One other thing.

Keep in mind that when it comes to hedgerows, one size does not fit all. There is a huge variability in the size and makeup of the hedgerows. Hedgerows come in every possible shape and size, from an unbanked line of sparse trees to the 10 foot sunken lanes like Wicky showed.

While dramatic sunken lanes like that tend to get photographed most, I didn't find them to be the most common feature. I did find a few like that, but the 'average' was much less imposing. On my last trip I made quite an attempt to get a feel for the country, as best I could in 2004. One whole day was spent driving around in the hedgerow country between Isingy and St. Lo, so get a feel for the countryside.

I found the 'average' to be a 2-3 foot embankment, covered with brush (trimmed to keep the road clear in 2004 to an extent not seen in 1944) and with a line of trees. There often was a small 1 foot deep drainage ditch which ran alongside the hedgerow, but not always.

The 'average' looked something like this. Here is a hedgerow lane with a dirt road, as I expect the GIs would have seen it in 1944. It isn't really 'dramatic' but it is still hard to see through, and presents a fair obstacle.

[Mad Russian]

Runyan99,

The one thing wrong with using trees outright is that then the Allies are as road bound as the Germans. There can be no use of the Cullen device through trees like CM has for hedges. How do you handle that? :confused:

Panther Commander

[Runyan99]

I don't think it is a game-breaker.

If you absolutely must allow the Americans to move through the hedgerows, make some parts of the hedgerow light woods, instead of woods. Then tanks can move through.

If the trade off is allowing cover for infantry, or movement for tanks, I'd prefer the method that does a better job of modeling infantry combat.

[ June 07, 2004, 03:39 PM: Message edited by: Runyan99 ]

[General Bolt]

Originally posted by Pheasant Plucker:

...IIRC dead cattle were a common sight in 1944....

Battlefront must put out a patch with dead cattle.

[Mad Russian]

Originally posted by Runyan99:

I don't think it is a game-breaker.

If you absolutely must allow the Americans to move through the hedgerows, make some parts of the hedgerow light woods, instead of woods. Then tanks can move through.

If the trade off is allowing cover for infantry, or movement for tanks, I'd prefer the method that does a better job of modeling infantry combat.

I think that all of the infantry are modeled the same for moving through the hedgerows. All nationalities have the same infantry capability for moving through them.

Not so with armor. Maybe you could do something like making every other one a hedge or something like that. Scattered trees would allow infantry to move through it as though it weren't very dense I would think. A bit too much access...

The only advantage the Allied armor has in these tactical situations is being able to move through the hedgerows. IMHO. So I think taking their ability to move through them is a big issue for me.

Maybe CMx2 will have actual bocage style terrain and there won't have to be a compromise.

Still, the bocage made of whatever we come up with, is a defensive night mare for the Allies to try and breakthrough.

Panther Commander

[Runyan99]

Since there is no perfect solution, each designer is going to have to decide how to model the terrain themselves. I'm simply sharing my preferred method. The simple fact that the 'high hedge' tile provides little or no cover for infantry makes it a non-option for me.

[JonS]

Panther Commander - the issue you raise with Runyan99s solution only affects those scenarios in which the Germans have armour. In that case it is possible to make a house rule that the German player won't move through the trees. Or sumfink.

Regards

JonS

[Conscript Bagger]

Runyan: do you have problems with sighting using your terrain? A single forest tile often doesn't block LOS at the same level. Since you raise the elevation, that'll be great for blocking ground level LOS, but I'm wondering if you get elevated units sighting across multiple hedgerows.

[securityguard]

I think the best way to model bocage is using the road + woods tile. That way you don't get to use it like a full tile but it still provides cover

The actual bocage tile is silly, but its a good way to create a wall inf can hide behind. It works more as a wall than it does a 'steep hill that peaks with brush and trees'

[tar]

OK, here's a nice picture of the bocage country:

I'm not sure exactly where it is, though.

[JasonC]

Irregular small fields - some as small as 40m by 80m, some as large as 100-200m on a side - lined with a single tile of scattered trees or woods (some one, some the other) raised 1 elevation level above the surrounding terrain. Occasional gaps in the tree and berm edges. Roads all one level below the surrounding terrain and lined with woods. The field interiors should be an irregular mix of open, grain, orchard, and brush, with open the most common. Each field only one of these types, uniformly, not mixed. But successive fields a random mix of those types.

The result is limited LOS, sharply restricted vehicle movement, and large cover differentials for the infantry, if caught in a field by men in the better cover lining each one. Men on one of the "berms" can typically see all of two fields. Men below them can typically see the field they are in and all its lining terrain, but nothing else. Hedges have nothing to do with any of it.

Then to defend in it properly, have the Germans pick a few fields adjacent to each other and defend them as an integrated strongpoint, with up to a company of infantry. Trenches, foxholes, a few mortars, several HMGs, a few schrecks - and sometimes real arty FOs too (105mm and 150mm, a single module typically). The nearby fields that they aren't actually in, are covered with TRPs for mortar FOs, AP minefields, or occasionally leave them empty. A few delaying and listening post LMGs, split squads with fausts, and snipers in some of those. Sometimes a field is lined with wire to prevent easy exit.

The Allies don't know which fields will be defended and which won't be. Do not advertise it with flags. Sometimes they hit air and do not see any way of helping with the battle because they can't even find Germans, let alone see them to shoot at them. Sometimes they get harassing fire against their scouts, then the defenders break LOS with a short movement and are not seen again. Sometimes they walk into a seemingly safe empty field, and get mortared. Sometimes three sides of the exits are lines with AP mines - you can get in from the US side but not out again in any other direction. And sometimes a single probing platoon hits a MLR that catches then with a large cover differential and equal or better odds. Realistically, the Germans also sent out single platoons from their strongpoints to infiltrate behind the allies and defend all over again a field they thought they had cleared.

That is why it took so long. But in the long run, the Germans lost infantry in these fights - more than they could replace. Only adequate infantry can run this defensive scheme. It doesn't have to be as numerous as the attackers, because the thinner delaying areas can cover 2/3rds of the frontage at times. But if the defenders are outnumbered in squads 5 to 10 to 1, there is no way they can hold anymore.

[Mad Russian]

tar, that is an awesome picture. Thanks.

Panther Commander

[Mad Russian]

Originally posted by Runyan99:

Since there is no perfect solution, each designer is going to have to decide how to model the terrain themselves. I'm simply sharing my preferred method. The simple fact that the 'high hedge' tile provides little or no cover for infantry makes it a non-option for me.

I agree there is no perfect solution. I am having that problem myself and that is why I brought the discussion in here. I'm not saying that your system is right or wrong. I just see that at times that system has a flaw in it as well. From what I can tell there is no one way to protray the bocage in CM.

How would the high hedge tile work if it was on an elevated tile? Would that be closer to the truth?

Still just looking around in the dark for answers.

Panther Commander

[Mad Russian]

Jason, do you have a scenario that has this pattern of bocage in it? I would like to see what it looks like. I do not own CMBO any longer though. Gave it to a new player to get him started in CM.

I appreciate the help from everyone. Thanks.

Panther Commander

[Runyan99]

Originally posted by Impudent Warwick:

Runyan: do you have problems with sighting using your terrain? A single forest tile often doesn't block LOS at the same level. Since you raise the elevation, that'll be great for blocking ground level LOS, but I'm wondering if you get elevated units sighting across multiple hedgerows.

I don't have a lot of experience with it yet, but blocking ground-level LOS is the main thing, and raising the level of the hedges probably does that quite well.

Depending on the density of the trees and the height of the observer, an elevated unit might actually be able to see into more than one hedgerow in real life. Tar's photo might give you some feel for that. I don't see a problem at the moment.

[Slappy]

I've fooled around with this a lot and come to one solid conclusion: The stock Bocage tile is terrible. It may block LOS like bocage, but it gives no cover on either side from an AI perspecive and makes it impossible to defend the terrain effectively or historically.

Using elevated trees and brush is a good compromise, but no panacea as the 20m tiles are too wide to effectively model. They do block LOS pretty well in the summer (which is when this combat happened) and are my preferance with some scattered trees and brush thrown in to allow some visual variety and vehicle access. As others have suggested, elevate the berms, drop the roads and use treelined roads and you'll come out OK. Throw in some stone walls and maybe a fence or two and you'll be fine. Remember not shift your orientation as well. As that picture shows, the bocage wasn't drawn on graph paper.