QB afrika maps too open?

[Dr. Rosenrosen]

I'm very glad that the developers included Italy in CMAK for the QB maps. Even with heavy trees set, the randomly generated QB maps for the 2 africa regions have practically no trees. While I'm sure this is fairly accurate historically, I have had no luck playing on a map with such little cover.

For those of you who have had success and fun playing on the wide open desert maps, what am I missing? What troop purchases, tactics, etc do you use that allow these wide open maps to work for you?

[Sergei]

Fighting at open plain is much like naval warfare - there isn't a whole lot of gimmicks, you just have to rely on your side's superiority (which you try to enhance with sound tactics) or run away.

You should try bad weather or night battles for limited visibility, in the case you have only been playing in clear midday conditions.

[MikeyD]

One good thing is if you have a decent Italian theater map in the QB maps folder it'll import as a North Africa map if that's the theater you've got selected. It doesn't have to be designed as N.A. to be imported as a N.A. map. That big city QB map on the CD will import as downtown... um... Tunis if you've got the parameters set to N.A. As a matter of fact, you can select any 'scenario' map and it'll strip-out the default forces for QB play!

[ May 09, 2005, 01:45 PM: Message edited by: MikeyD ]

[Gpig]

So cool, that!

as to open desert fighting, it can be pretty durned fun. Make sure you've got at least "gentle slopes" selected in your QB set-up parameters.

A little bit of undulation in your maps can create a lot of cover.

As for tactics. These are a few that have helped me out in the open plain.

Have plenty of overwatch firepower (and eyeballs) at the ready.

Move only in leap-frog bounds (one portion of your group moves while the other covers. Then switch movers with shooters and repeat.)

A little bit of ROCKY ground for your infantry is better than open sand. Look for ANY kind of cover for you infantry. Shellholes. Brush. Anything.

Good luck.

[Panzer76]

Originally posted by Dr. Rosenrosen:

For those of you who have had success and fun playing on the wide open desert maps, what am I missing?

Could be you aren't missing anything. Africa is a love/hate thing, I personally hate the open featureless Africa maps.

[MikeyD]

I recall before CMAK's release there was this soft-but-persistant chant being heard "We hate Eastern Front! We want Afrika Korps!" Then the first time they find themselves with cruiser tanks vs superior(!) Italian tanks on a big flat open map it was "Gulp! Weeellll.... maybe we'll mostly stick to the Italian theater."

The rigors of desert warfare seem to be as tough on us wargamers as it was on the combatants themselves!

[SgtMuhammed]

Besides, where else are you going to be able to test out the far right of the penetration tables?

[MikeyD]

I have nothing new to add. I'm just bumping this to knock the '3:53' thread off the board.

[JasonC]

Don't use completely flat, using some hills or at least gentle slopes. Higher "tree" settings give more brush, rocky, and rough. A hilly map with high "tree" cover winds up as "jebel" fighting (tops of rocky hills). Restricts tanks and brings infantry into its own.

Also, try it at night. Historically, the infantry was much more active in the dark hours, in this open terrain. Forces aren't completely "firepower integrated" simply because they can't see far enough.

Daylight, flat, open sand, of course the tanks rule. The next most important arm isn't the infantry, it is the towed guns. Those are particularly effective against tanks early in the war, because the early, low caliber tank guns don't hurt them very well - and many have only MGs.

Mortars and artillery counter the towed stuff, in turn - either by KOing them, suppressing them, or just by blinding them with dust. Which is quite historical. That is the main paper scissors rock relation in open desert. The squad infantry is an afterthought.

[securityguard]

Download some desert maps off scenario depot and play at night. There is one specific map I downloaded called Border Patrol which worked great for a night time QB (completly open terrain, too), it was an extremely interesting battle filled with flanking and squad managment.

[MikeyD]

I don't know if this'll hurt or help but a 'Very Hot' weather etting reduces long range visibility somewhat.

[SpitfireXI]

The other great thing about the desert is using dust to trick your oponent or trying to reduce your dust output in order to sneak up on an enemy.

[HeinzBaby]

I find Quick Battles rather 'surreal', good for experimentation and checking out mods.

Try some Nth African Senarios or Ops, more satisfying..they have a much more sense of purpose.

[throwdjohn]

i enjoy early war scenarios but for this one fact. as i recall, german tanks in the early war years (39-41) were not so great, in fact in some ways inferior to their opponents, and that the early german tank victories were largelly due to good german (or rather poor british) tactics. therefore, i play a nth africa scenario and get trounced by the tommoie, simply cuz i'm ****e with armour. but its good practice.

[GreenAsJade]

Try the Dunes(s) scenario at Scenario Depot. It's a blast. It's anything but flat...

[wunwinglow]

Which reminds me of a Desert Storm Tornado crew conversation.....

Nav to Pilot 'Jeez, Iraq is one flat, featureless load of nothing, aint it, Capt?'

Pilot to Nav 'Turn the map over....'

Tim P

[Zimorodok]

I found that, for me to enjoy a CMAK QB map, in the middle of the day, that the best thing to do is make the map 30-40% larger than you would for the same size force in CMBB (or what you might/would've done for steppe maps). Allow distance to act as cover. Makes for more flanking attacks and it feels more "real" for something that's, by definition, fake.

I also use my vehicle's dust, a lot, as cover. It's gamey, but cheaper than smoke rounds. The best, of course, is a stiff breeze blowing @ your back over your enemy. (and yes, i do the "drive jeeps and trucks back and forth making dust in front of the advancing armor/infantry/deploying Arty guns trick).

Otherwise....i'm sure not a single man of mine would make it to the opposing trenches.

And for the record, i loved the Eastern Front, and only play CMAK because of the updates to the engine. I'm eternally saddened by the fact (well explained already, no need to tell me 2x) that the CMBO and CMBB experiences won't reflect the best CM1 engine BTS made.

Zim or o dok