Sivodsi Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 Chance of kill = 'None' Though if you look at the penetration charts an M10 should be able to blast through 140mm of armor plating. What gives? Is this something to do with the angle and the AP round sliding off? Or did the Tiger run over a 'cloak of invincibility' power up? I have a screen shot and the saved game file if anyone is interested. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 Could be shatter gap at that distance. The way I understand it is that the shell decides that the best way forward for the shell is to just dissolve instead of punching through, because it has too much energy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soddball Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 Check the data for the Tiger. It has a 'reinforced turret front'. In a PBEM I am enjoying hugely against Becket, his three M-10 tank destroyers are pinging rounds off the front of my Tiger. He has achieved one penetration and one partial penetration, so you can go through the turret armour - you just have to get lucky. At present, one of the M-10s has joined the Afrika Sizzle Company. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinsdale Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 Armour Penetration Online That's a tool a friend of mine built. Handy, accurate and up to date, unlike some texts. The creator works in the industry. Also for reference: BEF equipment 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CombinedArms Posted February 4, 2004 Share Posted February 4, 2004 Originally posted by Sivodsi: Chance of kill = 'None' Though if you look at the penetration charts an M10 should be able to blast through 140mm of armor plating. What gives? Is this something to do with the angle and the AP round sliding off? Or did the Tiger run over a 'cloak of invincibility' power up? I have a screen shot and the saved game file if anyone is interested. I strongly suspect that the positioning of the Tiger is adding an angle effect to the armor plating. The Tiger frontal plate is thick but flat or nearly so, but positioning on a hillside slope or else an angled presentation of the Tiger's frontal armor to an opposing tank can add angles to the flat frontal armor and make them a lot harder to penetrate. I did a quick test on a flat tracked test course and found that early M10s (w/o tungsten rounds) had a "Fair" chance of killing a hullup Tiger at 400m in a straighton facing. M10s w/ tungsten showed a "Good" chance of a kill under the same conditions, presumably because of the tungsten's added penetrating power. Oddly, none of the M10s actually fired their tungsten when I ran a test--I think the AI is still a bit to reluctant to use tungsten, even after years of tweaking. Anyway, in a single test, with ten M10s facing ten Tigers in separate lanes at 400m, the M10s killed the Tigers 3 times out of ten. Clearly they have some chance of killing a Tiger at a longer range than 140m, and even using plain AP. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 In 'Assault on Longstop" (should I have a SPOILER alert here?) I've been able to get my 6 pdr Churchills to fire their tungsten rounds no problem. But that may have something to do with the fact that standard 6 pdr AP has ZERO% chance of penetrating a Tiger from 500m. So it appears that if there's any hope at all for a penetration from a standard round the AI will try the standard round. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abteilung Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 Dinsdale: How does scotsman define a penetration wrt the calculator? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Becket Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 I loathe you, Soddball. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Becket Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 Strike that. Let me revise it. Dear Soddball: <img src=http://cross.phpwebhosting.com/images/HiSoddball.JPG> <img src=http://cross.phpwebhosting.com/images/HiSoddball2.JPG> Your pal, Becket. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kitty Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 Originally posted by Becket: Your pal, Becket. Look at all those burning, shattering, baking, abandoned Tigers. =) Kitty 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abteilung Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 LOL Nice job Becket! Took the bounce right out of him. Ooh! Ooh! M10s!! M10's are what Tiggers do best!! BLAM!....CLANK! Tigger don't like M10s... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
_Axe_ Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 *innocently wanders in* Wow, this chap Soddball must really suck at CM. And whoever this Becket fellow is, he seems to really know his tactics. I'd better be careful if I ever play him. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edward Windsor Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 That's got to sting. I wonder what kind of maggot can lose Tigers in a nice, wide, open desert... Teddy 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soddball Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonxa Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 I did a small test, not very controlled, with M10s vs. Tigers. At 100 meters range or so against the turret front there are a lot of shot shatter or only partial penetrations. Upperhull is more vulnerable though. BTW, I've lost a Tiger to an M10 in the desert. I suspect we played the same battle. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrNoobie Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 Originally posted by Becket: Strike that. Let me revise it. Dear Soddball: <img src=http://cross.phpwebhosting.com/images/HiSoddball.JPG> <img src=http://cross.phpwebhosting.com/images/HiSoddball2.JPG> Your pal, Becket. hey where did u get the gridded terrain...i cant find it 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dinsdale Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 How does scotsman define a penetration wrt the calculator? The same way the US army does. Not necesarily a killing shot. Look at the energy listed to get an idea of impact. He did interesting things and found/proved that the 17 lber APDS does not in fact shatter as some authors believed , but rather had a bad first run of ammo and the penetrator yawed due to improper seperation. If you run the 2lber you will see Shatter GAp is included in the script. Reults are from Jetz and others with a few run on the Hydrocode generator in his spare time. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claus B Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 Originally posted by MikeyD: In 'Assault on Longstop" (should I have a SPOILER alert here?) I've been able to get my 6 pdr Churchills to fire their tungsten rounds no problem. But that may have something to do with the fact that standard 6 pdr AP has ZERO% chance of penetrating a Tiger from 500m. So it appears that if there's any hope at all for a penetration from a standard round the AI will try the standard round. Churchills have "tungsten rounds" in April 1943? Claus B 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Becket Posted February 5, 2004 Share Posted February 5, 2004 Originally posted by MrNoobie: hey where did u get the gridded terrain...i cant find it Hmmm....somewhere on CMMODs...I think it may still be stuck in the CMBB section (I recall downloading it before they added a CMAK section). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 Becket, who's grass are you using? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted February 6, 2004 Share Posted February 6, 2004 Claus B writes: "Churchills have "tungsten rounds" in April 1943?" That's the month that 6 pdr tungsten shows up for the first time in the game (and in the war ). Got in right under the wire for that scenario. Otherwise that Tiger would be pretty much unstoppable. That round must've come as a nasty surprise to the Germans (153mm penetration at 500m). 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Becket Posted February 7, 2004 Share Posted February 7, 2004 Originally posted by Andreas: Becket, who's grass are you using? Al Gore III's. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Claus B Posted February 11, 2004 Share Posted February 11, 2004 Originally posted by MikeyD: Claus B writes: "Churchills have "tungsten rounds" in April 1943?" That's the month that 6 pdr tungsten shows up for the first time in the game (and in the war ). Got in right under the wire for that scenario. Otherwise that Tiger would be pretty much unstoppable. That round must've come as a nasty surprise to the Germans (153mm penetration at 500m). I can accept that it is the first time it turns up in the game, but whatever sources I've seen suggest that in real life, it turned up in 1944, not April 1943. So I wonder what sources suggest that 6-pdr APCR or APDS was available in April 1943? Claus B 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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