Dinsdale

Depends on where you are. Canadian residents wait several weeks thanks to customs.

APDS problems were linked directly to sabot seperation issues with 1-2 batches of amunition. About 1 in 7 IIRC went high. Will verify that My vote is the 17 Pdr. AtGun

French RGs fired using live rounds. Rest used Blanks. The No.68 Mk I/II was relatively ineffective due to its need for close to 90 degree hits to cause proper detonation. Later MKs had better angles but still were hard to get good hits with. They are far from precision targetted devices. They did work OK against Bunkers/walls etc. when not faced with a bunch of different angles in a small area (tank). I have 2 No.68 Mk IIIs at home. They are quite small and light.

I don't think Never is a good word. "Rarely" might be a better word. Or possibly "Not often" Didn't take much time to dig this up 2 days without resupply before being wiped out. Also at Dieppe. That's 2 seperate fronts, 2 sepearte armies. Both ran out of ammunition after many hours of fighting. No resupply. [ June 15, 2004, 03:10 PM: Message edited by: Dinsdale ]

April '43

You touch on it and then continue to make blanket statement that US Marksmen are better. As a whole, no they were not. Compare specifically Marine marksmen vs Others, and you may get a different result. Get it? I have UsArmy Ammunition Data sheets if someone has Brit/Canadian ones.Everything from .22, .410 shotgun through 30mm Cannon rounds. [ May 14, 2004, 01:05 PM: Message edited by: Dinsdale ]

You cannot take Marine Marksmanship and equate it to All US troops. They trained differently, and had different standards.

Funny how the III at the Patton Museum has the same values as the one at the Bovington museum. I'll measure the one at Borden as well later in the Spring. But of course, your "drawings" are more accurate.

That is all fine and dandy but as a Production tank has the following values, measured off the tank, I question the value of your 'original drwaing' until you find any production tanks with a values that corroborates your inforamation.

You are misunderstanding. Look at this PIIIE Compare to the IIIH which has a large External Mantlet.

I have for armoured regiment May 1942: Regiment with 3 Squadrons. 55 Cruisers 6 CS tanks 8 AA tanks

I recognize that drawing from a 1943 report on the Vulnerability of German tanks to 20mm MKIII AP I can send it to you if you like. [ March 22, 2004, 11:22 AM: Message edited by: Dinsdale ]

Front Turret armour is 30mm. Mantlet is 37mm. You can hit the Turret Front without hitting the Mantlet.That and the Viewport covers are 25mm-30 mm and vulnerable as well.

From WWIIOnline Forums just FYI for those interested. Reply:

That was what I recall from pre-1942 testing as well. --Derek Ward Gives a quick way to get approximate values. Hey there Ireg, we'll keep it more civil here ok? [ March 12, 2004, 04:24 PM: Message edited by: Dinsdale ]

The No.68 Grenade the British had in 1940 could penetrate 89 mm @ an effective range of 100m. No admittedly it wasn't that effective. It had a very narrow margin to achive that penetration due to angles needed. The Mk2 version corrected this by 1941. The M9A1 anti-tank rifle grenade should be capable of a similar performance which the following confirms. You need to realize that these were the precursor to the PIAT,Bazooka and used the Munroe principle. (HEAT) [ February 26, 2004, 03:32 PM: Message edited by: Dinsdale ]

The same way the US army does. Not necesarily a killing shot. Look at the energy listed to get an idea of impact. He did interesting things and found/proved that the 17 lber APDS does not in fact shatter as some authors believed , but rather had a bad first run of ammo and the penetrator yawed due to improper seperation. If you run the 2lber you will see Shatter GAp is included in the script. Reults are from Jetz and others with a few run on the Hydrocode generator in his spare time.

Armour Penetration Online That's a tool a friend of mine built. Handy, accurate and up to date, unlike some texts. The creator works in the industry. Also for reference: BEF equipment

HE and all damage is still Joule based damage modelling. We are still trying to convince them to give up their HE model and go with the US Armies technique of simulating HE. Bouncing,timed grenades still in the works. :-( Matty still has artificial weakness despite proof that this in fact was not the "Weakspot" Still hoping they admit to that and add to list of fixes. IIIh still has too much Ammo, and it is still in turret. This should change with the coming armour audit. AFV exploding on contact with walls is not as common anymore and is related to the netcode. Once they figure out the issue limiting them, it will disappear. Gotta slow down around town. French commanders will be able to get out to look only once the new model which includes jettisoning" is included. Until then the French are "sucking hind teat" although the M3A3 sure is nice. Although it is a buggy game, it is the ONLY game in town. I both love/hate it and that tells you something. CRS also will take researched data and add changes to the game based on the data. Just have to make a well documented case. And for the record, I love Combat Mission and alot of my squad plays as well.

Can you post any info you have on this. I have 89 MM and effective up to 100m but with a fairly high amount of poor penetration due to angles. Fired from Kneeling position using a Blank cartridge. Anything you guys can add?

Can you post any info you have on this. I have 89 MM and effective up to 100m but with a fairly high amount of poor penetration due to angles. Fired from Kneeling position using a Blank cartridge. Anything you guys can add?

Froma friend who is a professional Kinetic energy AT Missile tester and WWII grognard.In reference to WWIIOnline APHE effects but info is still valid. And that is in a tight interior. Unlike a Halftrack.

My Maternal Grandfather was an Airframe Mechanic on Swordfish9RN). His Swordfish dropped Flares in the Raid on the Italian Fleet. He was on the Illustrious when she sank. Was in the Hanger Deck when a 500KG bomb went off. Most died. He lived. He went on to Malta and then back to England. He Met my Grandmother , who built airplanes, while on leave. My Great Grandfather fought for BEF in WWI and went AWOL to Australia. He returned and rejoined on the condition they drop the AWOL charges. My Paternal Grandfather and all his relatives were Merchant Marines(UK). My Step Grandfather was a Doctor and my Step Grandmother a Nurse(Royal Canadian Medical Corps). OF My Step Great Uncles , there were 4, 2 served. 1 was a Major in the Governor General Foot Guards and Died fighting near Caen during the Falaise battles, 14 days after landing. The other was a doctor who Died in Korea as a Colonel in the Royal Canadian Medical Corps. EDIT: Go here http://www.virtualmemorial.gc.ca for Information on deceased canadian Soldiers.' Some information is incorrect. It lists my Great Uncle as a Sherbrooke Fusilier. Getting them to fix it and adding Pictures I have. [ January 09, 2004, 01:43 PM: Message edited by: Dinsdale ]

My Maternal Grandfather was an Airframe Mechanic on Swordfish9RN). His Swordfish dropped Flares in the Raid on the Italian Fleet. He was on the Illustrious when she sank. Was in the Hanger Deck when a 500KG bomb went off. Most died. He lived. He went on to Malta and then back to England. He Met my Grandmother , who built airplanes, while on leave. My Great Grandfather fought for BEF in WWI and went AWOL to Australia. He returned and rejoined on the condition they drop the AWOL charges. My Paternal Grandfather and all his relatives were Merchant Marines(UK). My Step Grandfather was a Doctor and my Step Grandmother a Nurse(Royal Canadian Medical Corps). OF My Step Great Uncles , there were 4, 2 served. 1 was a Major in the Governor General Foot Guards and Died fighting near Caen during the Falaise battles, 14 days after landing. The other was a doctor who Died in Korea as a Colonel in the Royal Canadian Medical Corps. EDIT: Go here http://www.virtualmemorial.gc.ca for Information on deceased canadian Soldiers.' Some information is incorrect. It lists my Great Uncle as a Sherbrooke Fusilier. Getting them to fix it and adding Pictures I have. [ January 09, 2004, 01:43 PM: Message edited by: Dinsdale ]