GreenAsJade Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 Do multiturret tanks ever track different targets with each turret? I drove a couple of M3s into a target rich environment, and while I saw both the 37 and 75 be used in different situations, I never saw the 35 shoot at one target while the 75 was acquiring or firing at another. And clearly it seems that I can't order this to happen... I can only direct the tank at one target. I was kinda expecting to be able to target _two_ things, or at least have the AI do that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soddball Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 I haven't seen them in action yet but this may be the compromise BFC was forced to come up with to get multi-turreted tanks in the game You only get one red line but if, for example, you're using an ordinary Sherman and you tell it to target a tank 300m away and off to your right, if the Sherman's 'hull down' to the tank then the bow MG will fire on targets in front of you. Have you tried getting an M3 into one of those situations to see if this is the case? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aka_tom_w Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 read the CMAK primer thread the answer is ONLY one target. -tom w Originally posted by GreenAsJade: Do multiturret tanks ever track different targets with each turret? I drove a couple of M3s into a target rich environment, and while I saw both the 37 and 75 be used in different situations, I never saw the 35 shoot at one target while the 75 was acquiring or firing at another. And clearly it seems that I can't order this to happen... I can only direct the tank at one target. I was kinda expecting to be able to target _two_ things, or at least have the AI do that. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Kulin Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 Related questions about multi-turreted vehicles. When you pull up the info screen for the tank I presume that the shell penetration info is for the larger caliber gun. Correct? How would you go about getting the same information for the second gun? And can you specify only one of the guns target a vehicle? e.g., there might be an instance with something like an M3 where I would want to target a soft skinned vehicle (truck/HT) using the 37 mm only. (I haven't played the US side yet with the M3 so maybe this is obvious once you have one to control) Andrew 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ant Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 Well from my quick look at the demo last night: The armour penetration figures are by ammo type. As the M3 has four different types of ammo I presume two of those are for the 75mm gun and two for the 37mm gun. Haven't tried to specify which gun to use though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Tittles Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 Should we really say 'Multi-gunned' vehicles? Are there any true multiple turrets proper? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 The M3 Grant/Lee 75mm gun is in a rotating port which has a much bigger traverse range than a gun in e.g. a Stug. I'd say it is more like a turret than not. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ant Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 Inbitially BFC said the engine couldn't handle multi turreted vehicles. This line was maintained right through the CMBB development process. Then when CMAK was being developed they said they'd found a workaround. What I think they've done for the M3 is essentially give it only one gun but several different ammo/penetration varieties to give the impression of two guns, and of course the associated graphics for two guns, but really in game code terms it still only has one gun. hence both getting knocked out with a single gun hit and the ability to only fire at one target at a time. So essentially we're being fooled into thinking it has two guns when really it doesn't Not that I'm complaining. If that was the only way to model the M3 with the existing CM engine then fair enough. It does the job well enough anyway. Of course that's only a guess so I could be wrong but the evidence I've seen so far points to that. [ November 21, 2003, 10:45 AM: Message edited by: Ant ] 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 Also note that in hulldown the lower gun is not blocked. So it's really as you say, it's just two kinds of ammo from one gun. I already hear preople start complaining about the TacAI's choice of ammo for this and that shot 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ant Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 One other disadvantage that I noticed with the 'one gun pretending to be two' method is that the 37mm turret won't rotate outside the forward quarter of the vehicle. Instead the whole tank rotates stug fashion. This is fine for targetting enemy tanks where you need to use the 75mm gun anyway, but against a HT where it could rotate the turret and use the 37mm it still brings the whole tank to bear instead. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 It's not just one gun, as the 37mm and 75mm each have different ROFs. You'll also notice that the 37mm will engage targets outside of the 75mm traverse range. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ant Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 37mm will engage targets outside of the 75mm traverse rangeAh, thanks Kingfish. I only took a short look at the demo last night and none of my M3s did that. Maybe it was just too limited an observation on my part. There are certainly other characteristics which make it look like only one gun though; such as one gun hit taking out both guns, or the aforementioned hull down issue. Maybe BFC will tell us how it really works. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 Originally posted by Ant: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />37mm will engage targets outside of the 75mm traverse rangeAh, thanks Kingfish. I only took a short look at the demo last night and none of my M3s did that. Maybe it was just too limited an observation on my part. </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted November 21, 2003 Share Posted November 21, 2003 Originally posted by Kingfish: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Ant: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />37mm will engage targets outside of the 75mm traverse rangeAh, thanks Kingfish. I only took a short look at the demo last night and none of my M3s did that. Maybe it was just too limited an observation on my part. </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted November 22, 2003 Author Share Posted November 22, 2003 Originally posted by redwolf: Also note that in hulldown the lower gun is not blocked. So far, this is the main visual downside of the implementation that I have seen. The question is "does the 75 fire from the hull down position?". I haven't been able to test that, mostly because of the difficulty of putting the tank in a position where 75mm is the choice it _must_ make. Originally posted by redwolf: So it's really as you say, it's just two kinds of ammo from one gun. The implementation is better than this, because muzzle flash comes from the correct gun depending on the ammo selected, and the turrets do rotate independently. I _think_ I saw the 75mm fire straight ahead while the 37 was still pointing backwards. That for me would be an important point: that the tank actually knows which way each gun is pointing, and while it can only track one target, it can at least choose the right turret. If the "independent rotating turrets" is really only "the 75 doesn't rotate backwards in the picture 'cause that would look silly, but the the tank only has one gun facing direction", then we will have to wait to file the 75 until the 37 rotates back in line with it. That would be bogus. Has anyone confirmed that things are not bogus? Ta, GaJ. PS: Originally posted by redwolf: I already hear preople start complaining about the TacAI's choice of ammo for this and that shot Yeah - guaranteed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GreenAsJade Posted November 22, 2003 Author Share Posted November 22, 2003 Originally posted by aka_tom_w: read the CMAK primer thread the answer is ONLY one target. Um, what thread is that you are referring to? (I only just started reading CMAK forum!) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 Originally posted by GreenAsJade: If the "independent rotating turrets" is really only "the 75 doesn't rotate backwards in the picture 'cause that would look silly, but the the tank only has one gun facing direction", then we will have to wait to file the 75 until the 37 rotates back in line with it. That would be bogus. Has anyone confirmed that things are not bogus? Ta, GaJ. Happy? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Lucke Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 How come my M3 doesn't look like your M3? Note missing door firing port and length of 75mm gun. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 Because, being sick and twisted, Andreas wanted you to realize that he has the beta and you don't. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wicky Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 Andreas is a beta tester (and one of the dearthly eucalyptus clan, aka school prefefects, who mismanage the forum), and his screenshots are from an earlier version to the demo??? Originally posted by von Lucke: How come my M3 doesn't look like your M3? Note missing door firing port and length of 75mm gun. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 Originally posted by von Lucke: How come my M3 doesn't look like your M3? Note missing door firing port and length of 75mm gun. Because I am special. Now give it a rest. Whinger. One could think you are a pom. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ACTOR Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 That's funny mine looks EXACTLY like Andreas' LOL 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Tittles Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 Well if the commanders MG-turret actually turned, then it would be multi-turreted and multigunned too. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Lucke Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 Originally posted by Andreas: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by von Lucke: How come my M3 doesn't look like your M3? Note missing door firing port and length of 75mm gun. Because I am special. Now give it a rest. Whinger. One could think you are a pom. </font> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andreas Posted November 22, 2003 Share Posted November 22, 2003 Originally posted by von Lucke: Yah, well, ummm --- the background in my shot is prettier than yours! I did that on purpose to show off my tank - which is nicer than yours. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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