39 monthe but still no full squad representation?

[General Lee]

I know that game programming is hard but if close combat could represent each soldier than why cant CMAK, even after two previous versions? it would be cool to see each soldier shoot or fall in combat, would'nt it?

[Shadow 1st Hussars]

It would grind your computer to a halt. The strain on your system would be too much, it would totally clutter your screen as well.

[ September 25, 2003, 08:52 PM: Message edited by: Shadow 1st Hussars ]

[General Lee]

I guess but woud'nt that depend on your computer? The new 64 bit 3.0 gig processors would have no problem, right? If that is the case the why not haver an option to alter the # of represented soldiers like you can alter the detail level.

[Abbott]

If you stop and think about Close Combat and Combat Mission a moment, you should be able to answer your own question.

[Kwazydog]

Lee, systems are getting closer, butI wouldnt say they would have no problem with it.

Keep in mind that many CM battles are battalion vs battalion size or larger. That places maybe 1000 individual people on a battlefeild. Not only do you have to graphically represent all of those little guys, but you need to give each them of a brain (AI). This is where the real processing power can be used up, as each of those little guys needs to work out where to stand, where to shoot, how to react to various situations, etc.

On top of that, if you are tracking indivudal people, you really need to consider tracking indvidual bullets and where they hit, who they hit, etc. If you are tracking indivudal bullets, you then in turn need to track individual ammo for each little guy, and so on and so forth.

So, basically, its not just as simple as saying lets represent each individual soldier...its like trowing a rock in a pond and watching the ripples. One seeingly small change can open a whole range of other problems.

That being said...will it happen one day? Hell I dont know I just make the graphics, hehe, but maybe

Dan

PS : And yup, compaing CM and CC really isnt good in this case. CC limits you too, I think, 12 'units'? On top of that comsider that its 2D, its ballistic calculations are far far simplier, so no processing power is used there, etc, etc.

[ September 25, 2003, 09:18 PM: Message edited by: KwazyDog ]

[Seanachai]

Kwazy, could you explain to me why after 39 months and 3 versions of the game, Combat Mission hasn't made contact with intelligent life on other planets? After all, I can't believe the computing power isn't there.

Or, for that matter, what's the hold up with meeting up with it here on Earth?

Please ask Charles what the hold up is.

[Kwazydog]

Seanachai, where do you think we found Charles in the first place

[Tha_Field_Marshall]

How come after 39 months we can't have Ninja's that would be totally sweet.

[xerxes]

hovercraft, now that would be cool.

[Holman]

Will someone tell me why, after 39 years, we can't have computers with enough processing power to run CMxx with individual icons and AI for every soldier, weapon, bullet, k-ration, swastika, and tree? Well why huh???

[Michael Emrys]

Blame Bill Gates. Well, why not? He's rich enough to endure the guilt.

Michael

[Berlichtingen]

Originally posted by General Lee:

I guess but woud'nt that depend on your computer? The new 64 bit 3.0 gig processors

Doubtful. Fire up 'To The Volga' and see how well it plays... that will give you an Idea of what full squads would be like

[Seanachai]

Originally posted by Berlichtingen:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by General Lee:

I guess but woud'nt that depend on your computer? The new 64 bit 3.0 gig processors

Doubtful. Fire up 'To The Volga' and see how well it plays... that will give you an Idea of what full squads would be like </font>

[Seanachai]

Originally posted by KwazyDog:

Seanachai, where do you think we found Charles in the first place

And while you were at it, you couldn't have brought along enough 'hot alien babes in aluminium silver bikinis' for all the loyal CM fans?

Incidentally, is it the tentacles that allow Charles to program at the ferocious rate he maintains?

[dalem]

I'd turn off full squad graphics even if they were there - I'm an old fashioned gamer - squads are represented by three guys, darn it!

-dale

[Noba]

Originally posted by dalem:

I'd turn off full squad graphics even if they were there - I'm an old fashioned gamer - squads are represented by three guys, darn it!

-dale

Rheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee ! eeep !!

[THumpre]

Someone want to tell me why, after 39 months I still can't seem to win any of my PBEMs?

[Pzman]

After 39 months people are still asking the same silly questions. Do a search or somefink.

[Pvt. Ryan]

After 39 months comes the 40th month.

[Grapeshot]

After 39 months you would think they could make the perfect grass mod and my quest would be complete.

[ September 26, 2003, 11:58 PM: Message edited by: Grapeshot ]

[Bastables]

Originally posted by Panzerman:

After 39 months people are still asking the same silly questions. Do a search or somefink.

Bloody hell. About some time somebody pointed to the search feature.

[Cabron66]

Another good question from a relative newcomer met with a barrage of silliness. Makes you wonder why they even bother asking.

I think the answer to the question is this. It could be done and probably will be (at some point), but would require a massive overhaul of the game engine. BFC is not a big company (when compared to others like Ubi) and simply does not have the time to overhaul the engine and do everything else they need to do to put out new titles as often as they must to compete.

Think about what would be needed to model every soldier on the field. I'm not talking about processor speed, but rather game mechanics. It would not just require a larger unit, but rather a whole new set of models, motions, uniforms, weapons, actions, formations, equipment and a thousand other things. On top of that you add the necessary AI changes, the inevitable glitches, the capacity for independant motion and separate roles (all the men in a squad do not do the same thing) and you get a big project. Considerably more daunting than coding dust clouds and new AFVs.

Basically, a game engine, using existing technology and being accessible to the average user, could be designed to do what you suggest, but it could not be done in CM without radical changes. Maybe in CMX2?

[ September 27, 2003, 02:05 AM: Message edited by: Cabron66 ]

[Berlichtingen]

Originally posted by Cabron66:

Another good question from a relative newcomer met with a barrage of silliness. Makes you wonder why they even bother asking.

Makes you wonder why they don't bother searching first

I think the answer to the question is this. It could be done and probably will be (at some point), but would require a massive overhaul of the game engine.

More likely a massive overhaul in desktop computer technology. The engine itself can handle it, but you computer can't. Like I said, fire up 'To The Volga' and see how the game crawls (even if you set it to show only two figures). And it really doesn't have anything to do with BFC's size... no other game is pushing that kind of polygon count either

[Scheer]

Originally posted by Cabron66:

Another good question from a relative newcomer met with a barrage of silliness. Makes you wonder why they even bother asking.

Your partially right. But at least some people have given him the right answer. The rest is only having a little fun.

And this question turns up every three months. So some of the oldtimers here get a little scruffy ...

[Sergei]

Originally posted by Berlichtingen:

More likely a massive overhaul in desktop computer technology. The engine itself can handle it, but you computer can't.

But if you have it like in CC, it does have more than just graphical effects on game play. In CC every soldier is modelled individually, with their positions, ammo, psychiatric status and so on. This also involves the player, as while in CC you cannot order individual soldiers, it is important to make sure that they don't do stupid stuff like crawl out of their hide out. It gets too laborious with CM battles, so unless something mother beautiful is invented here to remove the micromanagement, it just wouldn't work.

And having just ten dolls running in a formation instead of the current three isn't really an improvement, it'd only look sillier.

But maybe tracking teams instead of individual soldiers would be a working approach. This wouldn't even require increasing the number of men visible. But I don't know if even that would be necessary for the game?