"Cover Armor"? Explain this screenshot.

[TheBlackHand]

I took great pains to sneak this schreck into position. His defense of the 100yd gap is vital to my defense of the flag. I give the schreck a "Cover Armor" order with a 100yd radius.

This is what happens:

My opponent drives a T-34 RIGHT THROUGH the arc, to within thirty yards of my schreck AND PARKS!?!?!

The gaddamn tank stops, turns broadside to my schreck at about thirty yards, then reverses to a distance of about thirty-five yards. After the reverse he was out of the arc. That doesn't explain my shcreck's failure to act when the tank was within the arc and WELL within range of a killing shot. Especially as the tank stopped, went, sideways and reversed. What possible excuse is there for this failure?

I actually had to order the schreck to fire on the tank after a full turn had gone by. When the schreck did finally fire...he took four shots from thirty-five yards with only two hits. Now he is being shot at by the tank and will most-likely die.

Not only is this schreck a complete idiot, he is a horrible shot.

I am ready to throw this game out the window.

[Blackhorse]

Seems to me the scale is causing you to mis-jusdge the location of the tank.

Shift-C until the units are "realistic" scale and then see if the tank is still in the CA.

[SFJaykey]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like the vehicle size is set to substantially larger than life. Perhaps the tank snuck in unseen via the low area in the outer part of your arc, hidden by the low crest?

Also it looks like your schreck is out of command, which hurts both spotting and accuracy.

[flamingknives]

Looking at it, I'd say that the T34 isn't in the cover arc.

But you're right about the lousy shot. Last time I used a 'shreck on a T34, it hit first time and brewed it up. Thems the breaks, as they say.

[TankDawg]

"Blackhorse?!"

:confused:

who the hell is Blackhorse?

Didn't he used to post here all the time and start at least 4 games with TankDawg that were never to be finished?

Hi Sir. Looks like you got a promotion. congrats! that is great!

[Blackhorse]

Originally posted by TankDawg:

"Blackhorse?!"

:confused:

who the hell is Blackhorse?

Didn't he used to post here all the time and start at least 4 games with TankDawg that were never to be finished?

Hi Sir. Looks like you got a promotion. congrats! that is great!

Hey hey Jeff! How is life on the left coast? How is the Bn?

Things here are great. Lots of TDY, albeit, none to Lewis just yet.

Hope things are well with you.

BH

[MikeyD]

Maybe its just bad luck on my part, but I just can't get the AI to drive into minefields or through cover arcs, which are theoretically invisible to them.

My thought looking at that picture is "Why is that tank trying so hard to stay out of a cover arc it cannot see? And WHY would a tank at the extreme edge of the board reverse even closer to the edge?

[MasterGoodale]

Originally posted by MikeyD:

My thought looking at that picture is "Why is that tank trying so hard to stay out of a cover arc it cannot see? And WHY would a tank at the extreme edge of the board reverse even closer to the edge?

This is what I want to know! :mad:

[LGMB]

Soldiers,

Scale would most likely be the culprit.

Then again, maybe the Schrek and T-34 had an evil pact to spare one another, since the Schrek seems to be alive, still.

[Kingfish]

First off, your shreck is staring straight into the sun, so there's a good 30% off of his spotting capabilities. It's also a morning scenario, and he's probably still half asleep, so there's another 10%. Refer to page 263 of the manual for a good description on how to set covered arcs in the morning.

Next time I would give the shreck a much wider arc. One that goes outside of the map. You'll never know when those gamey ladder players will try that 'drive off the board, sneak back on again' trick. I was hoping that the 1.03 patch would fix that.

[TheBlackHand]

The T-34 is in fear of a Tiger that is also covering (sleepily and blindly it seems) the gap with a (useless?) "Cover Armor" command and clear LOS. That is why he's making for the map edge.

The cover arc is on a flat plain. The T-34 had been in plain view of the schreck for a couple of turns prior to his driving through the arc.

He drove across the arc for a distance of twenty-five yards, at least, not to mention stotpping within the arc, then reversing out of it. I didn't extend the arc to the full map edge because I figured anything that moved across the first portion of the arc would certainly have been targeted by the time it reached the edge. Surely, I assumed, the AI would direct my shcreck to target a tank THIS close within the arc!

The tank is larger than life. This probably accounts for is being out of the arc on the final screenshot. However, the tank IS at thirty to thirty-five yards. I know this because of the target line, which I was forced to assign. A tank should be easily targeted at that range, glare or no glare, arc, or no arc, sleepy-head or wide-awake.

The tank DID drive through the arc, at which point he should have been targeted by my schreck, therefore canceling the arc until either the schreck or the T-34 were dead.

I like the sun argument. However, it still doesn't wash with me. In addition, morning coffee or no morning coffee, if the threat of a T-34 bearing down on you doesn't serve to wake your ass up...then you're damn near dead to start with. If not, you will soon be. Barring a miracle, this schrecker is dead on the next turn.

The T-34 is now pouring flanking fire into my position around the flag. The battle could be lost because of this ef-up.

BooHooHoo...

[ May 14, 2003, 04:47 PM: Message edited by: TheBlackHand ]

[MikeyD]

Maybe this is meant to serve as an example of why Germany lost the war.

[Black Max]

Sorry for your bad luck. I am sure that everyone has had some bad experiences. Thats just the reality of CMBB and real life. Here is one of many ways that your predicament could be explained:

Psst. Psst!

Fritz...hey Fritz, you idiot. Get off your ass and get ready for that T34 coming this way.

I dont care if your tired. I said move your ass right now! He is getting closer.

What the hell? Thats just great...

Here I am trying to survive this bloody war when this morning I am told to sneak under cover to these trees and take out the T34 that has been giving us lots of problems. Well I manage to make it here alive, with no help from you. (Mister 2 left feet). But, then the soldier (Ya Fritz, I mean you!) that is supposed to help me, cant even hold on to a Panzerschreck without dropping it in the mud. Well just dont sit there, pick it up and wipe it off. God help me that I had to get stuck with someone who...

Oh **** !!! He may have spotted us. He is stopping...

(10 long seconds go by)

Whew... he is turning and backing up. That gives us a flank shot! Hurry up...

I dont care if your getting mud on your hands, MOVE IT!!!

What the F#@$ !!!

OF course you cant see anything when you aim. You didnt clean the mud out of the aiming sites.

Whatever you do, dont shoot until that aiming site is clean of...

(Whoosh): Fritz shoots Panzerschrek

Thats just great, nice shot asshole. You only missed by 30 meters. Why dont you try again so they can find out where we are hiding.

(Whoosh): Fritz shoots Panzerschrek

(and so the story continues...)

[theike]

From looking at the 2 pics, (i dont know how the tank reversed in the game) i see the tank doesnt get into the cover-arc fully, ore lets say till its middle point, cause probably the schreck only spots it after seeing the tanks middle point, as so often. And if thats it, from looking at the pics the pantzerschreck couldnt have seen the target as jet.

Could that be it?

[ May 14, 2003, 06:27 PM: Message edited by: theike ]

[['nzn]]

LOL, the tank (my tank) was reversing because it wanted to be further from the trees and get a wider observation on the place!

And i wasnt aware of that "get off map and then turn back" trick at all!!! This is really strange and stupid from me because i ALWAYS try to use the most up to date g.a.m.e.y. & c.h.e.a.t.i.n.g. techniques in this game.. Will perform now on, appreciate the advice greatly, thx!

Now hold on, TheBlackHand, im moving on ya from all sides and your Tigers with useless cover armours are not withstanding my drive! Did you count my AFV's there? Thats it!

[['nzn]]

Isnt the very existence of "map edges" g.a.m.e.y. btw?

Especially when they have influence on the poor schreck's performance

[88mm]

Whaahhabababa

Sun or no sun, half-sleepin or not, AT 35 meters you will HEAR A TANK COMIN !!!

He fritz, i hear a noise, maybe it's a tank. Huh, what? Theirs of ours ? Hmm, dunno. They all sound the same. Ow well, when you know which sort it is, let me know. For know, let me drink my coffee :cool:

ps: the game-engine "cheats". Like most games. This helps to mask the dumbness of the "Ai", whatever that is.....

[TheBlackHand]

Welp, here's the outcome of this fiasco.

Taking his fifth and final shot (or was it fourth?) from 35 yards.

Of course, he missed.

No "gameyness" going on here. NzN is a good guy and a good opponent. If the tank is on the map-edge it's only because he hasn't really got anywhere to go. I would be curious to know if the edge does have anything to do with missing the broadside of a freeking tank from thirty yards.

The schreck team was well "rested", not "tired". He is NOT looking directly into the sun. As I had stated, the tank had been under observation for a couple of turns prior to his move into the arc. The tank DEFINATELY moved through the arc. The schreck team should've been well prepared and ready to fire. They just effin sat there. When they did finally fire, after having to be ordered to do so, they embarrased themselves and the entire German Army. Not to mention, cost the lives of many comrades.

The shreck actually fired three or four shots while taking NO FIRE at all, therefore, there was nothing but his own shaky nerves to ef-up the sight picture. And what fine sight picture it should've been...from thirty facking yards!

There is quite frankly no good excuse for why this engagement has turned out the way it has. Although, I like the dialouge!

I'll chalk it up to faulty AI/game mechanics and bad luck. Looks like I just got screwed...again.

[ May 14, 2003, 08:24 PM: Message edited by: TheBlackHand ]

[Robohn]

I got a kick out of Black Max's dialogue That is pretty ****ty luck. My experience is the shreck bastard hitting my T-34 right in the side turret, moving fast, from 150m, first shot. Try the Russians and shrecks will never let you down again.

Robohn

[leakyD]

Well, as hindsight *is* 20/20...

Aren't experience levels acting as one "level" lower in CMBB compared to CMBO?

so:

Green = Conscript

Regular = Green

Veteran = Regular

and so on.

So, in CMBO terms, you had a Green shreck team out of command trying to nail a tank. In my experience, Green AT teams are almost worthless.

Poor little fellers were prolly too busy crapping their pants to aim worth a damn!

[Jarmo]

For those who dont know it.

For the game engine, tanks exist only on two points in the middle of the vehicle.

One lower point indicates the whole tank, one point above it indicates a hull down tank.

Is there a new turret down point above it? I havent noticed.

Anyway, the point is, it doesnt matter what vehicle it is or at what scale. A Kubelwagen and King Tiger both exist only one-dimensionally, right in the middle of vehicle.

[V]

Originally posted by Jarmo:

For those who dont know it.

For the game engine, tanks exist only on two points in the middle of the vehicle.

One lower point indicates the whole tank, one point above it indicates a hull down tank.

Is there a new turret down point above it? I havent noticed.

Anyway, the point is, it doesnt matter what vehicle it is or at what scale. A Kubelwagen and King Tiger both exist only one-dimensionally, right in the middle of vehicle.

All we are is dust in the wind...

[V]

Originally posted by leakyD:

Well, as hindsight *is* 20/20...

Aren't experience levels acting as one "level" lower in CMBB compared to CMBO?

so:

Green = Conscript

Regular = Green

Veteran = Regular

and so on.

So, in CMBO terms, you had a Green shreck team out of command trying to nail a tank. In my experience, Green AT teams are almost worthless.

Poor little fellers were prolly too busy crapping their pants to aim worth a damn!

What's this CMBO you speak of?

[Engel]

Schreck's seem to be mostly down to luck, though the unit experience level does matter. Sometimes it feels like they can't hit the broad side of a barn with it, sometimes they nail fast-moving tanks with the first shot (like in one game where a veteran schreck team nailed a tank with every shot; that's right, not missing even once).

[Nippy]

Originally posted by Engel:

Schreck's seem to be mostly down to luck, though the unit experience level does matter. Sometimes it feels like they can't hit the broad side of a barn with it, sometimes they nail fast-moving tanks with the first shot (like in one game where a veteran schreck team nailed a tank with every shot; that's right, not missing even once).

I've found that you must use schrek teams the same way you use AT guns, in batteries. Just for giggles I played a TCP game as Volksturm vs Soviet attack. I had tons of green schreck launchers and at first I used them one a t a time to no real effect. Then I ganged up 4 of them on a single T-34/85 at 150 meters. One turn later the T-34 was dead.