How to avoid bogging

[DerBlitzer]

There have been a few posts recently on unbogging your tank (which have worked for me), but how do you avoid it in the first place? Stick to roads and open ground, I know, but in a scenario where tanks must cross over significant portions of scattered trees, is there any particular method besides going slow (Move command)? Does going up a slope increase the chance? Is it better to go down? Should you avoid turning in place? Is Hunt better than Move to avoid it?

Obviously it's better to have a tank with a smaller PSI. But for those heavier ones, my frustrations mount...and the weather is listed as hot and dry!

[Kingfish]

My experience is to avoid scattered trees, rocky terrain and soft ground as much as possible, even if it means plotting a longer route around it. If you can't avoid it, using the move command works best. I find that the slower you go the less likely your tank would bog.

Another useful trick is to have one tank follow the other about a turn behind. If the leader bogs the follower can push the leader a short ways, which is usually enough to unbog the leader. Sorta like pushing him out of a patch of deep mud.

[Joachim]

Bogging is more likely on low ground. So avoid valleys if you want to reduce bogging.

Warning: Incoming might be a problem when travelling on high ground.

Gruß

Joachim

[MikeyD]

Ah, I was about to mention avoiding low ground too, though in the past others have disputed the point. I recall at least back in good old CMBO days low ground had been a major factor.

[Corvidae]

Dont use tanks.

Tanks bog, so dont use them.

How hard is it to make the conection here ??

Joachim, how do you get the * ß * character?

[Aco4bn187inf]

ßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßßß

I just had an M7 Priest bogged in a vinyard for six turns before he freed himself. A personal record!

On the Mac the ß is option-s. Don't know about PC.

[juan_gigante]

I don't remember the link, but someone ran tests, and movement speed actually mattered very, very little in bogging or not. Terrain, PSI, and luck were all far, far more important.

[Other Means]

Use roads. Then you find mines instead.

[Brent Pollock]

...and if it does get immobilised, don't have it fire until it runs out of ammo because the crew will bail out (found that out in ROW IV).

[DerBlitzer]

Well, the bogging has frustrated me, but it's another sign of how incredibly good (and fun) this game is. I had a solid plan of encirclement, which was proceeding perfectly --- until the tanks started getting stuck (one might have had a mechanical failure, because I think I heard something like a backfire). I managed to free half of them, but it forced me to change the attack, with riskier manuevers. The same kind of decisions tank commanders must make. Keeps you on your toes, and keeps you thinking. Great game.

[Carl Puppchen]

I hadn't seen the tanks pushing each other. That is a good tip

[dieseltaylor]

Quality of crew helps.

[John Kettler]

Kettler's Law

"The likelihood of a given AFV's bogging is directly proportional to its importance to your particular battle plan and scheme of maneuver."

Restating

"Your best piece of armor will be the one to bog, in the worst possible place, and is quite likely to be Immobilized outright in trying to unbog it."

The above are my conclusions based on repeated ROW experience, with armor ranging in size from a Jagdpanther down to an armored car.

"Kettler's Corollary"

"The ability of an AFV to Bog is inversely proportional to the perceived unlikelihood of said event."

Restating

"It won't happen to anyone else, but your critical AFV will find a way to Bog, in open ground, under dry conditions."

Regards,

John Kettler

[Corvidae]

Kettler,

At the risk of being repetitive......

.......

Dont use tanks.

Tanks bog, so dont use them.

How hard is it to make the conection here ??

............................................

............................................

I have never seen a towed AT gun bog.

[DerBlitzer]

Well, actually in addition to not using those bogging tanks, you could give up on those slow and nervous infantry, too. They always need someone to lead them around by the hand, and they move like, well, like they've got 40 pounds on their backs. Too much trouble! In fact, it's really best to use only off-map artillery and airstrikes. But, then, it kinda takes the fun out of it...

[Der Kuenstler]

Originally posted by Corvidae:

I have never seen a towed AT gun bog.

I have - I had 2 halftracks bog in deep snow - they left my towed guns completely out of the action.

[tar]

is there any particular method besides going slow (Move command)?

I found that this doesn't seem to help. In fact, I think it is counter productive. While it is perhaps true that it will take longer (in time) for a vehicle to bog while going slow (Move command), it will go farther before bogging (in distance) if you go fast (Fast command).

So, I hardly ever use the Move command for vehicles. Fast or Hunt seem to work better for me.

[Holien]

From what I remember of the thread several years ago the best way to cross terrain that might cause you to bog is as fast as possible as it minimise the time spent on that terrain.

See if someone can do a search on the previous thread.

H

[DerBlitzer]

Hmmm, the manual disagrees: "For vehicles, moving fast additionally increases the chance of bogging...(pg 78)"

The moving fast theory kind of sounds like the guy running out of gas who decides to drive faster in order to reach the gas station before the tank goes empty.

[Holien]

Do a search as someone did a lot of trials and his conclusion was that drive fast so you get out of it quicker rather than having more chances of bogging by being in it longer.

I.e. 10% if you drive fast (1 turn in area) compared to three chances of 8% by spending longer in area.

I did not do the tests and this is all from memory of a thread that must have been at least two or more years ago.

H

[tar]

I did some testing of this a while ago. I suppose I can try to look up the thread with search, and I discovered that although the intent (and the officially stated BFC position) is that going faster should make things worse, that is not what I found in my (admittedly somewhat smallish tests).

The chance per unit time of bogging is higher when moving fast, but the chance per unit distance is lower. In other words, the increase in bogging chance does not fully compensate for the greater distance moved over the same period of time.

=== Ah, found it:

Well, in my previous test, I found the numbers somewhat close, but with an edge to the fast or hunt moving. This was based on admittedly limited numbers of test cases in CMBB on different terrain types in wet weather.

I have seen Moon's claim that Charles had taken care of this in the past, but it seems that almost all of the empirical tests indicate that whatever fix was made did not completely get rid of the issue.

In my test I used 80 vehicles (40 at each speed half Pz IVE and half Pz VIE) and had the following results:

Summary:

Slow movement 26 incidents of bogging, 7 immobilizations, mean distance before immobilization 265m

Fast movement 18 incidens of bogging, 7 immobilizations, mean distance before immobilization 370m

The details can be found here: http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=7;t=001545;p=1#000000