Berlichtingen Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: Tell us a story, Berli! So tell us about Skorzeny, pretty please? I'm at work, so this is from memory... First off, the popular version of the story comes from the office of Goebbles and from Skorzeny's own book. The reality... Major Moys comanded the parachute (replacement school or replacement unit... can't remember which) that was tapped by Student for the operation. They planned and executed it. Skorzeny, against the protests of the Fallschirmjäger, went along on the mission. Note: In Skorzeny's book he indicates that these were HIS men... they were not. He was along as an observer. After Il Duce was secured, that idiot Skorzeny jumped into the plane with him (I assume so his version of the rescue would reach Hitler's ears). That forced the plane to take off dangerously overloaded. It is actually a tribute to the pilots skill that the success of the mission didn't end with Il Duce smeared all over te mountain side. When I get home I will find out what the exact unit Moys commanded Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Ah, that makes sense! I remember the Storch taking off and reading about that (or seeing the newsreel footage). Heh, got to have a good National Socialist get the credit for stuff like that, don't ya know! Did Mors write anything after the war (assuming he survived?) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: Did Mors write anything after the war (assuming he survived?) No idea, given all the fires that the Fallschirmjäger were thrown into, I'm surprised any survived... I have read that the Jägers involved weren't to pleased with Skorzeny taking the credit [ September 30, 2003, 07:08 PM: Message edited by: Berlichtingen ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atiff Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Originally posted by wwb_99: Well, the Kiwis and South Africans weren't that uncommon. And they have official histories containing tons of information (on their side at least, the enemy side can be a little sketchy). Also, a few specific battles that might be nice to see: Anything in Operation Battleaxe. Trying to advance on Halfaya Pass (mismatch of 88's vs Matildas), attacks on Fort Capuzzo (sp?), the armour engagements, it is all good stuff (and might have gone either way?) Units of 4th Indian Division attacking the Italian forts at the start of Operation Compass. From what I understand, this is one of the first times in the war the Brits got their combined arms tactics right, with air support, artillery and infantry all combining for decisive results. Also, there were New Zealanders driving some of the transports, and some even dismounted with the Indian infantry and joined in on the attacks! How about some action with the Rangers and Commandos on the left flank at Salerno? If I had my books here in this country I'm sure I could think of others.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atiff Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Also, you could fake some Greek battles if the editor allows you to have Italian-type landscapes in 1941. For example, one of the NZ Battalions (21st or 22nd, I think) held up the German advance at Platamon for almost two days (although they were lucky the Germans couldn't use their tanks in a significant fashion). Following that there were the Pinios gorge battles, probably some good stuff there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
von Lucke Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Originally posted by Dr. Rosenrosen: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by dalem: I have to reiterate the call for something small. Even an Op based on small battles would be fine. I don't like to play with much more than a company + support very often. -dale I second the nomination for smaller scenarios or ops. The big ones are definitely deeper strategically, but sometimes I don't have time to spend 20 minutes on each PBEM move. And when I do have time, I like to have 2 or 3 games going on, usually one big entree one with lots of troops, and one or two appetizers (desserts?) with fewer troops. Dr. Rosenrosen </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Originally posted by von Lucke: These small, fast moving battlegroups proved so useful, they were still being formed up to the time el Alamein took place. Not suprisingly, the Brits called these ad-hoc units "Jock Columns". But didn't Montgomery do away with these as part of his "fight divisions as divisions" policy? Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atiff Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 I'm pretty sure (NZ Div CO) Fryberg was against Jock Columns as well. He resisted many times the use of parts of the NZ Division away from the whole. This stemmed from the charter he had been provided with by th NZ Government. And that brings up a whole other topic we probably shouldn't go into here.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Pies Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Anything based on Popskis Private Army please. I'm sure most of the big battles people are requesting will be covered by the CD scenarios so something small along these lines would be great for those of us with lower end machines and graphics cards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergei Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 I want to see a spectacular showdown in Vatican between Pope's Knights of the Holy Inquisition and the Salvation Army. Are there Italian anti-fascist partisans in the game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steiner14 Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Originally posted by Berlichtingen: First off, the popular version of the story comes from the office of Goebbles and from Skorzeny's own book.Skorzeny's book was written after the war. I have the original interview in which Skorzeny describes the operation on a LP... The reality... Have you been there? Major Moys comanded the parachute (replacement school or replacement unit... can't remember which) that was tapped by Student for the operation. They planned and executed it. Skorzeny, against the protests of the Fallschirmjäger, went along on the mission. Do they mention, that it was Skorzeny, who had full responsibility? Do they mention, he was liable with his own life, to recue the Duce? Do they mention, that he had free hands for that operation? And do they mention, that therefore he chose his men? I don't know, what the intention of the story is, you want to tell: that not SKorzeny alone flew on Monte Cassino, fetched the Duce and flew back? It's ridiculous. Ofcourse his men helped him. And why not with the planning, too? The intention of your description seems to me, that Skorzeny earned the laurels, while doing nothing and even being an incapable coward. Could it be, that the author was quite frustrated about the fact, that Skorzeny earned the fame, while he stood only in the second row? Understandable to a certain degree, but whenever we talk about war, it's the single soldier without a name, making the success of the big names possible. To me, your description has a bad taste: not only that Skorzeny, undoubtedly a unique brave and successful soldier, is put into a bad light, it also suggests, that the men he chose weren't proud of the honor, that they had been selected for such a unique commando. [ October 01, 2003, 08:19 AM: Message edited by: Steiner14 ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SurlyBen Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Hmm good question. I'd like to see a Brit vs. Vichy battle in lebanon in 41, although I have no idea if that's possible. Long Range Desert Group attacking an airfield or supply dump behind the lines would make for a cool small battle. I'm almost positive one will be on the CD anyway, but I'd like to see one of the battles for the Maleme airfield (which would involve New Zealanders, and make atiff happy). Something of the failed German attempts at Heraklion and Retimo. Overall I'd like to see a lot of roughly company sized battles, and I'd like the briefing to say whether they are intended for PBEM or play vs. the AI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atiff Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Originally posted by SurlyBen: Overall I'd like to see a lot of roughly company sized battles, and I'd like the briefing to say whether they are intended for PBEM or play vs. the AI. Yep, when they get to big, I start losing interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Originally posted by Steiner14: Do they mention, he was liable with his own life, to recue the Duce?What exactly does this mean? That if the Duce was not rescued, Skorzeny's life would be forfeit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xerxes Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Monty immediately did away with the Jock columns. Previous to that the Jock columns were extremely effective in a mobile/flexible screening role. Since Monty was interested in major battle it probably made sense for him to eliminate the Jock columns. I think some Jock Column scenarios would be quite interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Monty immediately did away with the Jock columns. Previous to that the Jock columns were extremely effective in a mobile/flexible screening role Hmmm.. I don't think I share your enthusiasm for the Jock Column's role. As one British officer said they did nothing but entertain the chaps and keep the Germans on their toes. Jock Columns also dissapated British strength in uncoordinated, unsupportable actions that really didn't accomplish much and cost them dearly at times. Also, I've read that in some formations Jock Columns were used up to the end of the war. Bil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrSpkr Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 From what little I know (and without giving anything definite away) You guys are going to be happy with the scenario selections. I know I really enjoyed the opportunity to help proof and edit the briefings. Be patient. The time for your joy is coming. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Firefly Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 If it's not already in I'd like to see something on 50th (Northumbrian) Division's breakout westward through the Italians after the Gazala battles, spearheaded, IIRC, by 5th East Yorks. Another one that could use exit zones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoop88 Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 A couple suggestions for scenarios: 1. German defense of Halfaya Pass near the Libya-Egypt border, I think in late 1941. There is a chapter about it in Carrell's book from the early 1960s about the Afrika Korps. If I remember correclty, the commander, Bach, was a minister in civilian life -- his troops called him "Pastor Bach." 2. Someone asked for small battles. Because both sides in North Africa relied heavily on small long-range recce units, there are many possibilities for fictional or historical firefights involving these units -- for example, an attack on an airfield, which someone has already suggested. Thanks for asking! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berlichtingen Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Originally posted by Steiner14: I don't know, what the intention of the story is, you want to tell: that not SKorzeny alone flew on Monte Cassino, fetched the Duce and flew back? It's ridiculous. Ofcourse his men helped him. And why not with the planning, too? The intention of your description seems to me, that Skorzeny earned the laurels, while doing nothing and even being an incapable coward. Could it be, that the author was quite frustrated about the fact, that Skorzeny earned the fame, while he stood only in the second row? Understandable to a certain degree, but whenever we talk about war, it's the single soldier without a name, making the success of the big names possible. To me, your description has a bad taste: not only that Skorzeny, undoubtedly a unique brave and successful soldier, is put into a bad light, it also suggests, that the men he chose weren't proud of the honor, that they had been selected for such a unique commando. They weren't HIS men, he DIDN'T plan the operation, and he STOLE the laurals of the men that went in. Yes, Skorzeny was tasked with rescuing Il Duce, but he had to go to Student for men capable of carrying out the operation... Major Mors' (sorry... misspelled his name earlier) Fallschirmjäger. Btw Michael, the unit that went in was 1. Kompanie/Fallschirm-Lehr-Bataillon. No doubt Skorzeny was a brave man... he went along on a glider landing against the wishes of Student and Mors, so that shows a certain amount of bravery. That he claimed that it was his plan and his men is reprehensible and fairly typical of the infighting between branches in the Nazi regime Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steiner14 Posted October 1, 2003 Share Posted October 1, 2003 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Steiner14: Do they mention, he was liable with his own life, to recue the Duce?What exactly does this mean? That if the Duce was not rescued, Skorzeny's life would be forfeit? </font> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CombinedArms Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 A few ideas, some already mentioned: 1. German armored counterattack in the Gela Plain, Sicily. 2. Various small battles around Anzio, some involving the Rangers and special forces--maybe a whole Anzio pack. 3. Various phases of the Cassino operation--again, maybe a Cassino pack. The same map(s) could be modified and further cratered from battle to battle 4. Various bits and pieces of the Siege of Tobruk--again, maybe a Tobruk pack. 5. Some kind of big battle featuring Grants--just to watch 'em do their stuff. 6. The Ranger actions early in the Sicily campaign. 7. Kasserine Pass 8. Italian partisans vs. Germans (assuming we get them) 9. The Guns of Navarone... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Pack??? Did someone say Pack?!?!?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breakthrough Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 Some great CMAK battles could be drawn from the Kasserine and Mareth Line battles as they are described in 'An Army at Dawn'. Its a great book about the Tunisian Campaign Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Other Means Posted October 2, 2003 Share Posted October 2, 2003 with arty being such a big part of British plans (see Monty's comments at the end of the war) i expect this theatre will be much better in CMx2. but then again what won't. my uncle Bill passed away last year. my uncle Tommy 8 years ago. both were in the LRDG. Tommy Hind (5"5' ? ) carried Willaim Kulk (mums bro - 6" 2') 8 miles overnight when he was wounded. Tommy became my uncle when Bill took him home & impressed his sister Mona with "the Tommy who carried me through hell". so: i'd love to see the LRDG. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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