Could Open/Missing Tank hatches be modeled for Abandoned tanks in CMAK.

[Charlie901]

Don't have to even model the hatch lid in the open position, rather the hatch lid could be missing for an abandoned/knocked out tank showing a black hole where the opening to the interior of the tank is.

IMHO this would add some visual aids to an identified abandoned or knocked out tank on the battlefield.

Besides all the old WWII photos I've seen showing abandoned/knocked out tanks show the hatches missing or open.

[MikeyD]

That would mean duplicate turret roof/hull top bmps for each tank type. That sounds like a good idea until you realise BFC would have to drop something else from their (probably) over-full CD in order to impliment it. I recall I had all sorts of cool proposals for CMBB that I'm happy now they didn't take up, because it wouldv'e meant dropping the Sturmtiger or Stug IV to make room for it.

[-Havermeyer-]

I was thinking of something similar. Playing a CMBO Op the field is littered with KO'd vehicles from previous battles. Be nice if there was a burned out set of bitmaps and turretless tanks, and maybe even turrets littering the field. It would be only momentary eye candy/atmospherics, as most of my play is concentrated on the game in that turn. Perhaps I've given a good reason why the return for effort negates pursing this...

And while BFC is at it, could they also...

[SFJaykey]

Originally posted by MikeyD:

That would mean duplicate turret roof/hull top bmps for each tank type. That sounds like a good idea until you realise BFC would have to drop something else from their (probably) over-full CD in order to impliment it. I recall I had all sorts of cool proposals for CMBB that I'm happy now they didn't take up, because it wouldv'e meant dropping the Sturmtiger or Stug IV to make room for it.

Why not offer both CD and DVD versions of the game? The CD would have all the basic bmps, and the DVD would be the same game but chock full of mods, open tank hatches, etc. And maybe the campaign feature. CD and DVD owners should be able to play each other in battles and ops. Nice little add-on sale for BFC.

Would give me a good excuse to buy a DVD drive...

[ June 03, 2003, 12:23 PM: Message edited by: SFJaykey ]

[MikeyD]

Or a 2 CD set. One CD only used to download a proportion of the art, the second is the install/play disk.

Oh, what am I thinking? My poor old mac's only got 2 gigs left onits hard drive!

[Meach]

I remember this being mentioned before, all sorts of terrain debris would be way cool to put down and use as cover and ruined fighters, bombers, tanks, halftracks...and so on. Go on BFC put in all on another disc or sumfink.

[SgtMuhammed]

Yes please, use all the CD's you want. If it comes down to a choice between leaving things out or adding another disk I will gladly pay for the disk.

[offtaskagain]

Anyone seen any estimates when PC games will start appearing in DVD versions?

[Kwazydog]

Actually CD space isnt such an important issue here as VRAM usage would be. As it was CMBB really needed a 32-64mb card to see its textures in their true resolutions (and with mods you probably want a 128mb ) so adding in twice the amount of upper hull and turret textures would really increase VRAM usage. Dont worry though guys, we will be modelling a lot more than this in the rewrite

For now, just turn on labels to see which tanks are knocked out or abandoned...

Dan

[Moon]

Actually it's not so much the number of disks, but the time it takes to fill up those disks (read: coding and making graphics). With a small team, we have to establish priorities, and sometimes leave not-so-high-priority items out. The alternatives would be to either wait for 5 years until the next game comes out, or make open hatches for abandoned tanks at the expense of, say, a dozen or so vehicle models.

Martin

PS. Hehe, Dan has another good point

[ June 03, 2003, 06:56 PM: Message edited by: Moon ]

[SgtMuhammed]

I remember some discussions when BB first came out about including things in the 1.01 patch because the disk was full. Trust me, you guys really don't have to worry about adding another disk even if it is 90 percent empty.

Yes I know there must be priorities but I am quite sure nearly all of us would agree that if you need to use more than one disk then go for it.

[MAUS_TD]

moon when i understand you correctly its not

about the number of disks but about the development time to make those extra bmps.

Then why dont you let people make mods let them send to you and you choose the best put them on an extra cd. Because there are many good mod makers when i look in cmmods

And those few you find good give a percentage or something like that

I say this because i find it very hard to get good mods and i want to pay more if i dont have to search for them

thnx Maus

[Meach]

Another thing you can do is turn on the bases of the units ALT-B I think. When a tank gets KO'd the base disapears from under it.

[Elmar Bijlsma]

What I would find great as an identifier between KO-ed tanks and those still running would be radio antennas on those not running. Especially Brit ones with those cute banners on them. Not as intrucive as most even if the disappearance of antennas makes no RL sense. Anything better then unit bases.

Guess will have to wait till the new engine. Goodness me, CMX2 is becoming more and more a sort of holy grail.

[MikeyD]

Maus writes:

"Then why dont you let people make mods let them send to you and you choose the best put them on an extra cd."

Actually, that's what they did for the special edition CMBO that was sold on shelves in Britain last year(?), an extra disk with 'freeware' mods. And that's sort'a what's going to happen with the CMBO coming out on U.S. store shelves (but with the mods already in-game, not tagged on as alternates), and I think they even mentioned something like that for CMBB by the end of the year too!

One 'problem' with a future mod pack though is as BFC's base art improves (CMAK screenshots look stunning) it'll probably become harder and harder to locate mods that are 'better' as opposed to just 'different'.

[aka_tom_w]

Originally posted by KwazyDog:

Dont worry though guys, we will be modelling a lot more than this in the rewrite

For now, just turn on labels to see which tanks are knocked out or abandoned...

Dan

OK!

I think this (next) idea is so GREAT it should have its own thread, BUT since BOTH Moon and Kwazy Dog are posting here I would like to suggest this idea for the next game.

I would like a "special" view like click "Shift 1" (as in view level 1 "special") and tab to see a view from someone's Binoculars.

sort of like this:

I would propose that any unit with optics and magnification like any tank commander or any HQ unit or any arty spotter "should" be able to be selected by the player so you could get their "binocular" view and zoom in to see "special" things or objects.

Of course this would only be "cool" if the visual effect or the info from looking through the binoc's of that unit could ONLY be seen by selecting the unit and hitting tab and Shift 1 for that view, THEN maybe the player could see something that he would not be able to seen ANY other way.

Maybe an enemy tank that is not moving in the far off distance is actually bogged but the game (from any other view) wouldn't tell you that, but you might actually see it from Shift 1? :eek:

the idea being that the player would get info and intel about somethings on the battlefield only by looking through the unit with the binoc's that has LOS to the thing or object the player is interested in learning more about?

its JUST a thought

thanks

-tom w

[ June 04, 2003, 07:13 PM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

[aka_tom_w]

now I convinced my idea needs its OWN thread

-tom w

[MikeyD]

I like Tom's gunner's sight suggestion (and if he didn't actually suggest peering through the gunner's sight he should'a!)

I wouldn't mind seeing historicaly accurate gunner's sights at proper magnification for each type of tank, though finding references on the sights used for Italian tankettes might be a challenge.

...Not that I expect anything like it before the next game engine, but a guy can dream.

[ June 05, 2003, 12:31 PM: Message edited by: MikeyD ]

[aka_tom_w]

Originally posted by MikeyD:

I like Tom's gunner's sight suggestion (and if he didn't actually suggest peering through the gunner's sight he should'a!)

I wouldn't mind seeing historicaly accurate gunner's sights at proper magnification for each type of tank, though finding references on the sights used for Italian tankettes might be a challenge.

...Not that I expect anything like it before the next game engine, but a guy can dream.

YES YES

I meant CMX2 NOT CMAK

the NEXT big thing

there should be a view through binoc's and gunner's sites and it should be "special" and useful to figure out what is happening down on the ground.

for instance if the ONLY way a player could actually see and know a enemy tank was bogged (it is obviously not moving) was to look through some "special" view 1 then that player should be able to SEE some extra graphic detail (ONLY available from that view) that would show the tank BOGGED (somehow? maybe just sunk in and stuck? :confused: or hatchs open as per the original suggestion in this thread ), otherwise from every other view the tank would look normal and just not moving.

I am suggesting a VERY selective and very special form of RELATIVE spotting that is only available from a gunsite or binoc's or some rangefinding special optics with realistic and historically accurate magnification (that shouldn't prove too hard to make accurate and realistic??? NOT! (yeah well I did not say it would be easy, it might actually be impossible, I have no idea) .

I like the idea A LOT personally!

-tom w

[ June 05, 2003, 12:53 PM: Message edited by: aka_tom_w ]

[Hat Trick]

Originally posted by aka_tom_w:

I would propose that any unit with optics and magnification like any tank commander or any HQ unit or any arty spotter "should" be able to be selected by the player so you could get their "binocular" view and zoom in to see "special" things or objects.

Of course this would only be "cool" if the visual effect or the info from looking through the binoc's of that unit could ONLY be seen by selecting the unit and hitting tab and Shift 1 for that view, THEN maybe the player could see something that he would not be able to seen ANY other way.

Maybe an enemy tank that is not moving in the far off distance is actually bogged but the game (from any other view) wouldn't tell you that, but you might actually see it from Shift 1? :eek:

the idea being that the player would get info and intel about somethings on the battlefield only by looking through the unit with the binoc's that has LOS to the thing or object the player is interested in learning more about?

its JUST a thought

thanks

-tom w

I think that this feature would drive me nuts. I can just imagine, at the beginning of an orders turn for a large scenario, having to "cycle" through twenty or more vehicles' "binocular" views to see if I've missed any intelligence about the enemy before plotting my orders. I have trouble enough tracking all the action on the field right now; I sure don't need a more complicated interface to get info.

[MikeyD]

They model sights somewhat like this in shooter games, and the current 'lock-to-unit, zoom' feature (tab-'[') can come pretty close to matching what would be seen through the gunner's sight.

At its most basic (VERY VERY basic), they could supply the 'lock-to-unit, zoom' view an overlay of artwork, a basic gunner's sight against a magenta knockout background. Of course that wouldn't work representing modern computer-enhanced optics, but it would come pretty close to peering through the sight for a Greyhound's 37mm gun.

[aka_tom_w]

Originally posted by MikeyD:

They model sights somewhat like this in shooter games, and the current 'lock-to-unit, zoom' feature (tab-'[') can come pretty close to matching what would be seen through the gunner's sight.

At its most basic (VERY VERY basic), they could supply the 'lock-to-unit, zoom' view an overlay of artwork, a basic gunner's sight against a magenta knockout background. Of course that wouldn't work representing modern computer-enhanced optics, but it would come pretty close to peering through the sight for a Greyhound's 37mm gun.

OK

that is how they might do it in its MOST basic form

BUT this issue is WHAT would you see?

If that view did not yeild any more detailed graphics then why bother with it?

if it is not functional in some unique way I am sure it would not be adopted

and as Hat Trick Posted above some folks here might think it is nothing more than a PITA, you know "why bother?" the damn game is complicated and tedious enough in some places??? :confused:

so I understand that side of the issue

I doubt they will even consider it

BUT I do hope we get some wonderful new form of REAL Relative Spotting in CMX2

-tom w

[aka_tom_w]

needs its own thread

Originally posted by aka_tom_w:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by KwazyDog:

Dont worry though guys, we will be modelling a lot more than this in the rewrite

For now, just turn on labels to see which tanks are knocked out or abandoned...

Dan

OK!

I think this (next) idea is so GREAT it should have its own thread, BUT since BOTH Moon and Kwazy Dog are posting here I would like to suggest this idea for the next game.

I would like a "special" view like click "Shift 1" (as in view level 1 "special") and tab to see a view from someone's Binoculars.

sort of like this:

I would propose that any unit with optics and magnification like any tank commander or any HQ unit or any arty spotter "should" be able to be selected by the player so you could get their "binocular" view and zoom in to see "special" things or objects.

Of course this would only be "cool" if the visual effect or the info from looking through the binoc's of that unit could ONLY be seen by selecting the unit and hitting tab and Shift 1 for that view, THEN maybe the player could see something that he would not be able to seen ANY other way.

Maybe an enemy tank that is not moving in the far off distance is actually bogged but the game (from any other view) wouldn't tell you that, but you might actually see it from Shift 1? :eek:

the idea being that the player would get info and intel about somethings on the battlefield only by looking through the unit with the binoc's that has LOS to the thing or object the player is interested in learning more about?

its JUST a thought

thanks

-tom w </font>

[Michael Dorosh]

As for the idea that mods can be done BEFORE the release of a game, obviously the poster is ignorant of how to do a mod of a vehicle skin, has never tried to do it himself, or both.

The skins are stretched over the 3D model in such a way that predicting what the skin should look like (ie what dimensions, where the "warps" should go, etc.) would be impossible.

Not having a 3D model to test the mods on would make the job impossible to do well, and probably impossible to do at all.

The special edition CMBO had mods that were done after the 3D models were available to the general public.

As talended as the mod artist pool may be, they are certainly not clairvoyant.

Apologies in advance if they are, in fact, clairvoyant and I have spoken out of turn.

But then, if you were truly clairvoyant, you would have chastised me for this post before I wrote it, wouldn't you.

[MikeyD]

Michael Dorosh writes:

"As talented as the mod artist pool may be, they are certainly not clairvoyant."

Funny, I knew you were going to say that, but I wasn't allowed to stop you, as that would be tinkering with the space-time continuum.

I rather suspect anybody who wants to start working on German mods for CMAK could go ahead. I doubt those polygons and numbering systems will be changing much. Can't say the same for Brit and American vehicles though. I'd be VERY disappointed if a new early cast hull Sherman polygon doesn't show up in the game.

Judging by the CMAK screenshots to date, a modder jumping the gun now would be at risk of falling short of the default art's quality! I'd love to get started on an Italian Elefant mod, I just don't want it to wind up looking worse than what's in the game.