CMBB QB Unit Purchasing Theories

[Chad Harrison]

There is no single best buy for any situation. We all play different and we each have our own strengths and weaknesses {Im okay with infantry and armor, but weak with artillery}.

So how do you spend your QB points? Do you have a method? Do you go for quality over quantity or the other way around? Do you ever purchase veteran or better?

Personally I am all about armor and infantry. In a QB the first place I go to buy units is armor. I use up all armor points possible for stable tanks {StuG, Mark IV, T34's, ect} at reasonable prices. Then I fill up on infantry. The more platoons the better {always regular}. I never get veteran anything {except maybe one or two MG's} because IMO they are not worth the point increase. I rarely get artillery because things move so fast in a QB that you can rarely get them to really work well {atleast I cant}.

Is there a reason to your purchasing madness?

Chad

[xerxes]

heh, I always go to the infantry and find the largest formation I can buy. Battalion purchases are the only way to go if possible. The soviets get those cheap mgs, ATRs, and onboard mortars. The Germans, lucky dogs, get guns as part of their battalions plus mg42/34s. Quite a steal in my mind. Then of course, there's the '43/'44 soviet recon brigade that comes with 10 M3s, very nice.

Always check if you have rarity on (who doesn't) what the prices of the different infantry are, you can sometimes pick some stuff up really cheap.

CMBB is a discount shoppers paradise.

[David Chapuis]

Originally posted by xerxes:

Always check if you have rarity on (who doesn't) what the prices of the different infantry are, you can sometimes pick some stuff up really cheap.

CMBB is a discount shoppers paradise.

Does that meant that the same unit could cost different amounts in different quick battle games? (I only have CMBO so far)

[David Chapuis]

Another question I have been wondering. Is buying a group (either battalion or company), cheaper than buying the same parts individually?

Edited because I can't tipe

[ May 22, 2003, 04:02 PM: Message edited by: Cpl Dodge ]

[xerxes]

yes and yes cpl Dodge, your assumptions are correct. The tricky thing is infantry rarity is not displayed as it is for other units (unfortunately). Battalion buys in CMBO and CMBB are good deals. They're even better deals in CMBB because support weapons are more effective.

[Joachim]

Originally posted by xerxes:

yes and yes cpl Dodge, your assumptions are correct. The tricky thing is infantry rarity is not displayed as it is for other units (unfortunately). Battalion buys in CMBO and CMBB are good deals. They're even better deals in CMBB because support weapons are more effective.

Squads and HQ cost is only affected by formation size. Check this by buying a Btn and afterwards a plt of that squad - you will see that the plt has much higher cost per squad (available after purchase in your unit list). A 50mm mortar is cheaper in a plt than from the support menu, cheapest in the btn.

Rarity only affects support wpns. If they are part of your formation, rarity affects their cost, and thus the formation cost.

Gruß

Joachim

[Redwolf]

The discount for a company is 5% and for a battalion is 10%, at least in CMBO.

The infantry formations are slightly affected by rarity. I didn't look closely yet but I thing the reason is just the organic support weapons.

[Slappy]

In CMBO, I would always fill up on artillery first. In BB, with the longer lead times for artillery, I usually buy 1-2 modules of the largest batallion or regimental level artillery available, as they generally have reasonable arrival times.

I try to but infantry in bulk as has been suggested, often augmenting with additional on board mortars, ATRs and other light support as necessary.

I then move on to armor, generally with a view to taking out other armor at range.

After that, it's filling up the rest with either some scouting or HE vehicles, HTs for a maneuver platoon or guns and transport.

[Moon]

I buy armor first, trying to find the best platoon (or more, depending on the size of battle) worth of tanks that I can afford, then check what artillery is available and either buy a few small modules if everything is expensive, or go for a bigger purchase if the price is right, then I spend the rest on the biggest infantry formation I can find, and if in doubt, buy the one with the most support weapons thrown in.

Martin

[Vanir Ausf B]

It is not true that rarity only affects the infantry support weapons. The squads are affected as well.

For example, in June '44 a Fusilier '44 squad is 30 pts with rarity off, 33 pts with standard rarity on.

[JasonC]

Armor cherry picked for front armor thickness and quality of the main gun is generally the first order of business. Winning the armor war is huge in QBs, and turns mostly on cherry picked quality, only secondarily on in game tactics.

Very occasionally I will use more numerous lighter armor in place of some (never all) of this, particularly when the best type available isn't great. (E.g. if I expect T-34s to face StuGs, Valentine IXs or even T-70s may be better than a few more T-34s). Then at least a moderate amount of infantry, preferably a well armed type (SMGs, 2 LMGs, or 3-4 SMG per squad types e.g.).

Then it depends on attack vs. defense or meeting. On defense, I spend a lot on support items, often maxing out that category. Multiple HMGs and guns take most of the points there. Leftovers on a few infantry teams (schrecks etc). For Russians, if you want infantry AT ability you should take just a few ATRs and add pioneers to the infantry mix (pioneers are miles better than molotov tank hunters). Defenders also take TRPs, at least one medium caliber arty module, and a smattering of trenches. Wire and hidden mine types, typically 1-2 platoon's worth.

Attacking, I want more squad infantry and heavy arty modules. With Russians, I either go for types with low random rarity and high caliber, in lower unit quality, and use them as map fire - or take 1-2 120mm mortar FOs for reactive fire. Depends on how infantry heavy the attack is planned to be, map size compared to forces available, and terrain.

With armor heavy forces I just want the ability to put some 120s down on well populated patches of woods too large to deal with by tank direct fire. Germans use divisional 150s if affordable, with 105s the fall back in small battles. Teams and support category items are less important on the attack but I usually still take some.

A pair of guns is often very useful. In some periods, they are critical for extra AT ability or stealthy AT ability (e.g. Russians 57mm ATGs in the Tiger era, or Germans heavy guns early in the war). Even a pair of infantry guns can be effective, for very low cost.

I typically plan on a few "overwatch teams" built around weapons section or company HQs, with a mix of ranged weapons - light mortars, HMGs, sharpshooters, ATRs - meant mostly to provide some infantry "self help" against defending support weapons (HMGs and guns). Armor heavy forces can rely more on tanks, but infantry heavy ones need these little weapons platoons. More squad infantry alone is too weak at long range, pins too easily, and has limited "ammo wind".

Meeting engagements are like attacking only more so. Tank and infantry numbers matter more, and heavy weapons less, because neither your own nor the enemy's are likely to be in good positions at the start (though open enough terrain can change that). 1-2 jeeps or SPWs can help position things. (Don't try to set up under fire, just drive to the backside of a wood and push through it on foot). Arty is also less important, with response time mattering more and caliber less. I still find the 82mm and 75-76mm light modules too weak to be effective, except for rapid smoke cover in the case of the mortars.

Maxing out infantry numbers is not something I use anymore. That paid off well in CMBO, but CMBB infantry is not as robust, and support items (except FOs) have improved considerable (harder spotting for light guns, more effective MGs, etc).

The one thing that always pays is thick armor. Thin armor and light FOs rarely pay, bunkers essentially never do. The biggest bang for the buck comes from cheap support items (or small numbers of fortification points) used perfectly. Infantry and medium to heavy arty typically gives a low variance "get what you pay for" effect, with heavier calibers and more automatic weapons paying better.

[Chad Harrison]

I find it interesting how much of a focus there is on armor and infantry in a QB ME. When you are playing a TCP/IP or PBEM with only a 1000 or fewer points, those armor duels usually decide the game. A mediocre player with unchallenged armor can usually win a ME, especially the smaller ones.

I did not mention it in my original post, but companies and battalions are the way to go with infantry. You get much more for your buck. Very rarely will I ever buy a single platoon, unless I have ran out of points or I want a recon platoon to split up into half squads. All those extra support weapons {namely heavy MG's} at a reduced price can be a real life saver in a larger battle.

Chad

[Nippy]

For Russians, if you want infantry AT ability you should take just a few ATRs and add pioneers to the infantry mix (pioneers are miles better than molotov tank hunters).

Flamethrowers shouldn't be overlooked either. The 45 meter range lets them "reach out and touch" German tanks at ranges that satchel charges and Molotoves can't

And a word on Soviet AT teams. After mid 43' their start getting the RPG-43 grenade. They are on par with the German AT mines and finally makes it worth it to purchase them.

I still find the 82mm and 75-76mm light modules too weak to be effective, except for rapid smoke cover in the case of the mortars.

Strange, I've always found them to be very effective in the role of smoke laying and AT gun/Mortar suppression. I love the Soviet 82mm Mortar spotter that commands 9 tubes at once. It creates a sort of shotgun blast effect when it lands and delievers lots of HE in a short ammount of time.

I've always found anything over 82mm/76.2mm to be too slow in responce to be effective. Either that, or the cost was way too much.

[JasonC]

Suppressing guns is cheaper to do with on map mortars or sharpshooters. What I want from FO artillery is smashing large numbers of infantry thoroughly. For that the light modules just aren't sufficient, when the enemy has any sort of cover. Other than the AI, they usually do.

My preferred reactive Russian FO is the 120mm mortar. The delay time is 5 minutes, which does require planning ahead. Much easier with 2 of them in a larger fight. You order one where you first expect to find the enemy, and 3 minutes later put the other in your revised "second guess".

Then fire if people are there when the time ticks to zero, or shift if there isn't anyone there. Walk 'em in. You will generally have a sizable barrage a few minutes away on contact. Small adjustments can be made by just walking the aim point in the "green", 100m steps.

[xerxes]

I prefer the flexibility of dual overtargeted 82mm mortar 9 tube FOs over a single 120mm FO. It's a tradeoff of stopping power vs flexibility.

[JasonC]

Err, except 2x82 (9s) cost 240, and 1x120 costs 93 (or about the same if rarity pushes that up). But I take it you mean, both 82s at the same target I'd put 1 120 on, and then shift to another by cancelling and retargeting in 2 minutes. That works. 18 82s firing at the same spot would certainly "shotgun" that spot, though it is a lot of ammo.

[Chad Harrison]

For artillery I prefer the smaller batteries for the small battles {especially ME's}. BUT, for any attack scenario, I always go with the bigger guns. They can really make life easier for you in an attack/assault.

Chad

[Slappy]

I also stock up on 50-82mm on board mortars when on the attack. They are the most cost effective unit in the game for taking out guns and MGs. I usually make sure that all the company HQs have 2 82mm or 3 50mm with them to take out strongpoints without having to expose my armor.

[Sidewinder]

on boards are definitely the way to go.

In july 43, I can get 3 on board 81mm for 99 credits, while the FO module is 93. This might seem a rip off considering the FO gets 4 or 6 tubes, but keep in mind that providing the position is good, on boards are more responsive, and more accurate. They deal with guns and machine guns with excellent effeciency. Would you rather spend 6 tubes trying to take out one gun, or one on board mortar tube? With the size of most TCP QBs i play, i generally don't take artillery any more. I used to take it all the time in CMBO, though.

[ May 29, 2003, 03:27 AM: Message edited by: Sidewinder ]

[securityguard]

Depends on who I am playing as.

As russians I mostly focus on Infantry so I can lose a platoon and not feel bad. As germans, I go for armor / big AT guns to get as many casualties as possible.

Once you take out german AT guns, or their good armor, you will be almost gauranteed a win. I don't like german infantry at all, but thats just me.

[JasonC]

On board mortars are definitely better against MGs and guns. I find a single 81mm or 82mm is enough. But the 50s are underpowered, and 2-3 at a time as required to make those effective.

I strongly prefer the 81-82s, because you know the job will get done. The Russian 50s do have a good ammo load, though, as well as medium speed. The German 50s have almost nothing going for them.

The only problem with the heavy ones is getting them around with slow speed. A jeep would be perfect, but the Russian 82 does not fit inside a jeep (because of that 7th man I suspect). For the Germans, SPWs are the best way. They don't fit on the back of a tank, unlike German HMGs.

I typically form heavy weapons teams around a weapons HQ or company HQ. I try to get each of them a couple of MGs, an 81-82 mortar or 2-3 50s, and if possible a large caliber FO. With the Russians, also 1-2 ATRs. A sharpshooter is nice, too.

They can then deal with any target effectively, from medium range. Full platoons get the heavy FO, MGs and guns get mortared (and snipered). The MGs deny open ground areas, maintain pins on guys around hit, and keep broken units from rallying again. ATRs are mostly just to keep light armor at bay.

[JasonC]

German infantry isn't well armed, but they do have great MGs. Try adding 4 HMG teams to a company, letting them do a lot of the ranged fire. They have good ammo depth and firepower.

The combination is the problem for the rest of the German infantry. Some have good FP (panzergrenadier e.g.) but low ammo, while others (standard Heer e.g.) have good ammo but mediocre FP.

If you need close in combat power for inside woods or a town, try adding one platoon of the German pioneer infantry. They have medium speed flamethrowers and numerous demo charges, both highly effective at 30m. These special weapons are outranged even by SMGs in more open terrain. But if they get the first trigger pull in an ambush or inside woods or pines, they can outfight even the SMG heavy Russian infantry. Good AT ability, too. The command span is a bit unwieldy, but you can get around that. Just give part of the platoon to a company HQ.

[xerxes]

The 2 lmg german infantry lacks ammo for my tastes. They can be good on defense when the terrain has large open spaces but in close the dual lmgs aren't that much help. I prefer the rifle heavy german infantry backed by a good number of the extremely effective HMGs (mg34 or mg42).

Adding in pioneers for close in punch and AT capability is a very good idea if you're going to be attacking into heavy cover areas.

[Redwolf]

On the subject of artillery, I think the most effective CMBB artillery is mortar carrier vehicles with a HQ spotting for them. vehicles not so much for the mobility but for the ammo load.

[xerxes]

I agree on the mortar HTs. They don't abandon nearly as easily as regular mortars and are obviously a lot faster.