Do you use daisy anti chain mines or infantry mines?

[Retigade]

So like the topic says are you using any mines on combat mission i have used those only once and decided never again to use those.....

But sure tell me if you know what is the best place to put them... jani_tillanen@hotmail.com

[Pzman]

I find that the enemy spots daisy chain AT mines very easly (as it should be) so I would only use them if I could not aford to get regular AT mines. Daisy chain mines have no effect on infantry so if I want to slow them up I would have to use infantry mines.

[Larry Thorne]

Daisy-chain mines can be used tactically blocking vehicles passing with considerably cheap prize. They cost-less than roadblocks and do the same job before the pioneers show up or you waste your ammo on the. As it is vehicles wont´t drive over them so with them you can try to have your enemy in certain place for example make them drive to an ambusdh or something. Or have those daisy-chains on a road and have at mines besides them so when vehicles is going around to avoid them they hit the real jackpot. Infantry mines are as usable as getting rich with Lottery coupons. Here is one good way to use them if making a scenario. look under booby traps in master Fredrocks tips TPG-Tips

All-in-all I think mines are strategically sometimes good for blocking and eliminating enmy at places one might think the attacker might approach, but in openground plains type of scenario not usable. Hopefully this helped at least for a bit. As it is you must know how finns love their mines...so should you

-Larry

[Kingfish]

Originally posted by Panzerman:

I find that the enemy spots daisy chain AT mines very easly (as it should be)

In reality the mines should be very hard to see, unless whomever laid them out wanted them to be seen.

Back in 2001 I asked what people thought of having the option of deploying DC mines during the battle, not just at setup. Here is what John Kettler wrote:

Kingfish,

I have raised this issue before, but BTS didn't bite. Daisy chain mines, once assembled, are a form of almost instantly deployable mine defense. This defense is, under all but the best conditions, practically invisible. Here's why.

Let's say we're British paratroopers. I'm working from memory here, but I seem to recall

each man carried a Hawkins (sp?) mine in his pack, specifically for quick creation of roadblocks. This is a small antivehicular mine which will blow the track off a tank and do terrible things to a wheeled vehicle.

Our company has just seized a small village, and the expected German counterattack will include armor. Okay, there are a few PIATs, but the gliders with our 6 pdrs. crashed. "Bad luck, old man."

Never fear, Sgt. Simpkins will sort us out straightaway. The PIATs cover another set of approaches.

"Here's the form. CO wants that bit o' road there (points) mined right off. Out with those mines, lads."

You and your section mates open up your packs and each take out something heavy and looking like a wide, low metal brick, doubtless green or dirty brown in color. Think quart turpentine can.

Meanwhile Sgt. Simpkins has sent the ubiquitous Pvt. Smith to find him a wire or a rope long enough to not only reach across the road twice but well into the nearby ditch. The mines, being antivehicular, can stand rough handling and are armed after being tied to the rope at intervals close enough to block vehicular passage. The mines are now placed on the far side of the road hidden from the LOS of approaching vehicles. The wire extends from the mine area across the road to the drainage ditch in which you, Pvt. Kingfish have been put by your sergeant.

"Now see 'ere, Kingfish. When I give you the signal, and not before, mind, I want you to quickly pull the wire toward you until you feel this rag (or knot) hit your hand. Once you do, stop. Got it??

"Yes, sergeant."

In the twilight you notice the sergeant check his Sten and take a few grenades from his battle smock pocket. Your section mates are placed in cover positions in nearby houses. The sergeant and a handpicked man are in ambush positions near you. The task is twofold: make sure you don't blow up the CO's jeep by mistake and initiate the ambush at the instant an enemy vehicle hits the mines once you're ordered to pull them across the road.

Skrree! Rumble Rumble Rumble! Skree!

"Die Englander ist kaput!"

A quiet voice is heard, grimly determined.

"Steady on...steady...now, Kingfish!"

In scant seconds the mines have been whipped out of their concealment and now lie across the road. Wisely you put your head down as a 251 loaded with Panzergrenadiers comes sailing around the corner and hits a mine. KABOOM! As the stricken vehicle lurches into the wall two grenades add to its woes, followed by the chatter of the Sten, the crack of Enfields and the battle cries of your mates.

And what might the Germans have seen right up

until you actually pulled the mines onto the road? A wire, no doubt dirtied or greased to make it blend in. Even after they're deployed they're still very hard to spot, especially while under fire.

Try this. Take bricks or turpentine cans. Paint them dark green. Go put them in tall grass about three feet apart.

What? Can't see them? You can in the game, and from quite a distance.

Find an empty dirt road or path and do the same thing. Have a friend place the bricks or cans while you go climb a ten foot tree a hundred yards away. Be sure you have a telescope or binocs. Now hunt for the bricks while bouncing randomly in the tree. Pretty tough, eh. I've done exactly this in CM from the cupola of a Panther at 100m. Repeat this exercise with a muddy jumprope. That's all you'd see until the mines were deployed.

My message, Kingfish, is that you're totally correct in your view. I would dearly love for BTS, when the opportunity presents itself, to readdress the modeling of daisy chain mines, in terms of in-battle deployability, but especially detectability. Their proven battlefield effectiveness is nowhere to be seen in game terms. When was the last time you

ran onto one of mine? Never, I think.

Maybe BTS can at least shut off the strobe lights as a first order fix?

Your loyal opposition,

John Kettler

So as you can see DC mines would have been very difficult to spot, and also easily deployed.

[edgars]

Interesting story.

It struck me that you could actually easely create a dummy minefield that way, just take a few bricks, paint them green (or apply grease/mud) and tie them together. Voila, the enemy thinks that the street is mined.

Was this done in real life?

[Conscript Bagger]

In CMBO I had a daisy-chain blocking a road on the reverse slope of a 5m elevation change. An AI halftrack came cruising along, crested the slope, and ran over the mine (KO'd). Either he didn't see it in time to stop, or the AI knew it was there and ordered him across anyway (that same game saw many other AI vehicles purposely driving through a standard AT minefield even after its discovery by previous vehicles). It would be interesting to test and find out for sure.

[AC]

Originally posted by Kingfish:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Panzerman:

I find that the enemy spots daisy chain AT mines very easly (as it should be)

In reality the mines should be very hard to see, unless whomever laid them out wanted them to be seen.

</font>

[drbassie]

I always use infantry mines in a defense. I place them in areas the attacker would use as cover in preparation for an attack. That way his troops can't assemble very orderly.

So I block/impede the avenues of approach w/ cover with mines and the open areas I cover with HMGs.

As far as daisy-chain mines, they just make enemy vehicles choose an open route that I have an ambush of AT assets waiting.

[Kingfish]

Originally posted by AC:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Kingfish:

</font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Panzerman:

I find that the enemy spots daisy chain AT mines very easly (as it should be)

In reality the mines should be very hard to see, unless whomever laid them out wanted them to be seen.

</font>

[flamingknives]

I like to put the Daisies across the road, while the verges are filled with buried AT mines.

[Brent Pollock]

Deploying Daisy Chains, along with Hidden Demo Charges, are just two reasons that I've yet to sell my ASL stuff.

I've also had vehicles hit Daisy Chains, both through lack of braking distance (as per Impudent Warwick) and careening out of control due to enemy-incuded panic/shock (that was a grisly, flaming end to an Afrika Korps truck).

[CombinedArms]

Arguably, as KF suggests, daisy-chains should be harder to see. But even in their present form they can be effective as roadblocks.

Many have already suggested this, but I'd like to add the point that it's good to place them in areas well covered by MGs and small arms. Then, if the enemy pioneers try to clear them away, they get whacked. And until they do get cleared, the mines block the road. I tend to prefer them to anti-personnel mines because the latter do so little damage. BTW, regular AT mines can't be used on paved roads, so there the daisy-chain is your only choice...

BTW, as I recall, the halftracks that towed US ATGs were filled with daisy-chain mines and these were also stored in US TDs. That way, they could be quickly spread out to ward off the counterattack, very much as in KF's story.

[PLM]

i was playing a QB Defending once and i had set a daisy chain mine on a road which was just past a sharp drop in the road on my side of a rather short, big hill. anyway a halftrack or jeep or something of his ran right through the daisy chain mine at high speed without stopping and survived. anyone ever had a daisy chain minefield take out something?

[Kingfish]

Most times the vehicle would turn off the road just short of the DC mine and try to go around, and if you are a sneaky bastard like flamingknives you could kill them by burying mines on either side.

I remember one very rare instance where I killed three vehicles in a column, one right after the other, by the same DC. A 250/1 was the first kill, and a trailing Panther either didn't see the DC, or was going too fast and too close to veer away, and he too died. Seconds later a StuH42 tried to barrel his way thru with the same results. Good thing too, since the only thing standing between those vehicles and my battalion HQ was a lone Piat team.

[Joachim]

Daisy chain mines on roads in wet ground. Occasional AT mines besides them. Works especially well vs AI.

Same goes for AP mines behind wire. If the engineers are close, the TacAI might use them to clear the minefield while the retreating inf who run into the mines is still caught in the wire. Great effect. Especially great to blunt AI mass charges.

Gruß

Joachim

[CombinedArms]

Actually, wire can be used with daisy-chains, too. Place the daisy-chain mines on the far side of barbed wire from the enemy infantry. The pioneers can't get at it without first getting entangled in the wire.

This is more on the lines of daisy-chains as roadblock, but if you want the enemy AFVs to actually hit them, then, as suggested, placing them just on the other side of a rise is a good plan. Also, AFVs are more likely to hit daisy-chains if they are buttoned and w/o infantry escort. So you can help the tanks to blow themselves up by, say, stripping away the infantry with mortar and/or arty fire. This will also button the tanks.

[MikeyD]

I place infantry mines in areas along the likely enemy route of advance that contain tempting blind spots like on the far side of a large building or in the unseen area of woods. Pretty good in combo with barbed wire for channeling infantry into kill zones. Enemy dashes to the blocked LOS of a building, finds he's wandered into a hidden minefield. As he tries to extricate himself he runs up against barbed wire covered by a mg. Ouch.

[Retigade]

Thx Flamingknives i used that daisys on road and other mines becides the road i took out 1Panzer and 1 Halftrack