Which video card for CM2?

[RCHRD]

I have a 3Dfx card now. I understand they have closed up shop. Which video card, and which card maker, will be best for CM2?

[Wreck]

Right now the leader in price/performance is Nvidia, and they have good drivers too.

CM is able to eat up arbitrary rendering power, by using big maps, turning on more trees, using high resolution textures, etc. And also smoke tends to cause a huge rendering speed hit. So don't worry too much about buying too much rendering power -- there is no such thing.

Right now I would guess that a card based on geforce2 MX400 or geforce2 GTS would be your best bet. Depends on how much you can spend.

[Bruno Weiss]

Sspppptt, hey kid. Kamere. Listen, dem slick salesmens will try and sell ya anyting. Get yerseff a Voodoo5 5500 for bargain basement prices. It'll do the job for CMBB, and most other games for probly anudder year or so. Mine really brings CMBO to life wit da anti-aliasing. Run all da hi-res mods to boot. Smoove as silk.

Now, juss so happens my cousin Vinney knows dis guy what works down at tha docks see, and his neighbor has a used one see. Little ole lady that never even overclocked it. Or, ya's could probly find some still in stock out dere on the internet. You be awite kid.

[Panzer76]

The price/performancer champion right now is in fact KyroII. But, my suggestion is wait so long as possible before buying a video card, with new cards are being developed with regular intervals, and thus making the former generation video card cheaper. When it comes to KyroII, it really shines on high resolution, 32 bit, 3D games. If you are mainly going to play CM2 I would not choose KyroII since the smart rendering engine in KyroII will not be properly used in CM2 plus the lack of DirectX8 support (for future games) and T&L on chip (for other games), I would rather pick an ATI og nVidia game. But with KyroIII, ATI Radeon2 and GeForce3 MX being launched in the near future, hang in and select one WHEN you must pick one.

And oh, don't get any 3Dfx cards now! They are out of buisniss, you will not get any more support and it is outdated by a fair margin.

[ 08-22-2001: Message edited by: Panzer76 ]

[Stacheldraht]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Get yerseff a Voodoo5 5500 for bargain basement prices. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Generally, it's unwise to buy parts from a manufacturer that's gone out of business (e.g., 3dfx): no support or new drivers. Up-to-date drivers are very important for vid cards.

[Danzig]

Bah...used to have Voodoo 5500 agp. . . DO NOT GET THIS CARD. Maybe I'm just bitter about picking it up for $350 the week before 3dfx goes out of business and prices dropped by 50%, I dunno. I do know, however, that the drivers available for this card are severely out of date. There are a couple websites of people who have tried and continue to make up to date versions of the drivers, but I experienced nothing but problems with them.

Two weeks ago I picked up a geforce3 and I have to say it flat out rocks. I even went through a lot of older games I had and the difference was remarkable. Must be something with the T&L on the card- or the fact that its 64mb. Dunno- I'm not a 'puter guru.

Anyways- I think you will see a nice dip in prices for cards with the geforce3 chip. With the holidays coming and the recent competition with Kyro, one would at least expect it. Sure you can get a card cheaper than a Geforce, but when it comes to something as important as a video card, I try not to be too frugal...

[Silvio Manuel]

Hmmmmm, do you think my stock HP 2MB video card will be up to snuff? Heck, I don't even know what fog is. Smoke? The hi-res is iffy...you have to play with the angle of the camera to see it, esp. if there's 2+ pillars of smoke about.

[Bruno Weiss]

Stacheldraht wrote:

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Generally, it's unwise to buy parts from a manufacturer that's gone out of business (e.g., 3dfx): no support or new drivers. Up-to-date drivers are very important for vid cards.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You say ya want up-to-date Voodoo5 5500 drivers? We got cha up-to-date Voodoo5 5500 drivers right chere.

3dfx

or

Omegadrive's Little Corner

Been posting em right along. Real dedicated I say. I figer the kid needs to wait on the shiney paint job, he juss needs a ride to work for tha time bein.

[ 08-22-2001: Message edited by: Bruno Weiss ]

[OstFront6]

OK, first of all DISCLAIMER - I'm not an expert on video card stuff.

However, I was in a local computer shop talking to one of the people in there. I asked the guy what he personally would do to upgrade my system for max game performace/price. This guy said to wait for the new motherboard with onboard Nvidia with AMD Athlon 1.7 GHz chip that's coming out in September. He's said there wouldn't be a need for a video card cuz the Nvidia junk (whatever the hell that is) will be built into the board. He said that you could still buy a video card and just disable the onboard Nvidia for when the onboard stuff gets obsolete down the road. But he said that this onboard video will run any game that's out there now with no probs. He said the board plus chip would cost about 350 bucks.

Anyway, what do you video experts think of all this? Crap? Good advice? Should I get it?

OstFront6

[Panzer_Meyer]

Nvidia's GeForce 3 baby, yea!!!!

Right now I have a GeForce 256 32mb card. Works like a charm for CM and Max Payne. GeForce 3 is still way to expensive, give it 6 months and it will be down to at least 250.

The only time I will upgrady my video card is when the game start lagging. And Running Max Payne at max Detail hasn't caused my any problems. So I don't need to upgrade yet. Remember this is the GeForce 256, the first Geforce in it's series. Good cards!

[Maximus]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bruno Weiss:

Stacheldraht wrote:

You say ya want up-to-date Voodoo5 5500 drivers? We got cha up-to-date Voodoo5 5500 drivers right chere.

3dfx

or

Omegadrive's Little Corner

Been posting em right along. Real dedicated I say. I figer the kid needs to wait on the shiney paint job, he juss needs a ride to work for tha time bein.

[ 08-22-2001: Message edited by: Bruno Weiss ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hey kid, don't be pushin' that out-o-date stuff on my poor ol' Mickey ther ya see. Just cuz yuz got sucka'd inta buyin' bad crack don't mean Mickey has to bite.

B'sides didn't we allz have dis talk 'long ago? 'Bout 3D wha? and Nvidia on who wuz da baddest dude on da block?

[Schrullenhaft]

For those that were curious about the nVidia motherboard chipset (for AMD CPUs) that is coming out sometime this fall:

http://www.duxcw.com/digest/guides/mb_chip/nforce/1.htm

The video is equivalent to the GeForce2 MX, but it has a couple of benefits above and beyond a standard AGP implementation of a GeForce2 MX. It looks good, but a motherboard based on it is about as expensive as a GeForce3 right now. It won't have all of the GeForce3's performance, but it looks like a good chipset so far and it may be the best chipset to support the AMD CPUs to come out so far. If you don't have the cash for a GeForce3 & SB Live and you're considering an (or already have a Socket A) AMD CPU, then this may be the chipset to get.

If you follow Bruno Weiss' link for Voodooo 4/5 series drivers you'll find that the third party that was performing minor tweaks to the drivers has stopped due to 3dfx's exit from the business and no driver code resource.

The Voodoo 4/5 series cards are a bargain right now. They have a very nice FSAA routine. However the minor bugs that the drivers experience currently may become something more problematic with newer software titles. I don't expect a whole lot of problems with them in CMBB/CM2, but that remains to be seen at this point. If you play other games, especially complex 3D games with various lighting features, etc. You may run into problems with no fix in sight (though this can be true of old video cards from a number of manufacturers still in business). Right now the Voodoo 4/5 series works in CMBO with a few anomalies and may continue to do so with CMBB/CM2.

RCHRD - what CPU and Voodoo video card do you have right now ? You may have read some of the game magazine articles about BTS dropping support for the Voodoo cards, but this only concerns the Voodoo 1 & 2 series. Do you know if you have an AGP slot and what type of chipset is on your motherboard (or the motherboard's model #) ?

[ 08-22-2001: Message edited by: Schrullenhaft ]

[Panzer76]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Schrullenhaft:

expensive as a GeForce3 right now. It won't have all of the GeForce3's performance, but it looks like a good

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The on board gfx card on the nForce MB will be nowhere NEAR as powerfull as GeForce 3. It's also worth noticing, that the MB is not fininshed, and therefore we don't even know if its gonna be a good performer (but I think so). Also, you will have to buy this MB when it's just reached the shelves which means that you can expect to fork over some big money to get it.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Schrullenhaft:

The Voodoo 4/5 series cards are a bargain right now. They have a very nice FSAA routine. However the minor bugs that [ 08-22-2001: Message edited by: Schrullenhaft ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Who needs FSAA anyway, this is just for marketing hype! Instead of playing a game @ 800x600 and FSAA x2, just play it at 1024x768 etc. If you have high resolution, then you don't need FSAA since the high resoultion fixes the "problems" FSAA are supposed to do, the jaggies.

[Wolfe]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Panzer76:

The on board gfx card on the nForce MB will be nowhere NEAR as powerfull as GeForce 3.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Yep. I thought I had read a preview that said the nForce (with integrated GeForce2 MX) performs almost exactly the same as its desktop MX counterpart. But unfortunately I can't find the link.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Who needs FSAA anyway, this is just for marketing hype! Instead of playing a game @ 800x600 and FSAA x2, just play it at 1024x768 etc. If you have high resolution, then you don't need FSAA since the high resoultion fixes the "problems" FSAA are supposed to do, the jaggies.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Now this is just silly. 4xFSAA on the V5 is a *HUGE* improvement. Not only do objects seem more '3D' because object edges are straighter and don't "crawl" across the screen, but the amount of pixel popping and texture shimmer is reduced by a couple orders of magnitude! Turning FSAA completely off in CM is almost nauseating. The difference is really enormous. I don't know how I stood it before.

Turning things up to 1600x1200 doesn't even come close to the image quality you get with the V5 at 1024x768 w/ 4xFSAA (or even at 800x600x16x4). Believe me, I tried.

That said, I don't think I'd recommend a V5 now not only because of the driver situation, but newer games do have some probs with the card which may not be easily fixable. It took me a while to find a decent driver set that didn't make Serious Sam look like a pastel nightmare. Soldier Of Fortune completely locks my system 2 seconds into the game; nothing I've tried helps. And other even newer games will likely continue to have similar probs.

I now run CM at 1280x960x16 w/ 2xFSAA. On larger maps 1024x768x16 4xFSAA stuttered a bit. CM isn't as good looking now, but it's decently faster. Unfortunately the V5 isn't quite as powerful as I would like (maybe I was hoping for too much). But it's still very good with CM.

The next card I buy will have to have great FSAA or I won't buy it. It really makes that much of a difference.

I was hoping the GF3 would be able to run CM at 1280x960 in 4xFSAA (or Quincunx) using a 64-tap anisotropic filter. Unfortunately, the state of its current drivers are such that you apparently can't use any drivers above 6.x or so with CM without getting some really annoying artifacts. Hopefully NVidia will be able to fix this and deliver a faster, cheaper version of the GF3 sometime the beginning of next year. Or if they improve the FSAA in their next product, I may even hold out for that one.

If I had to buy right now I'd probably go for the GF2 GTS (64MB version) for good bang without breaking the bank. The MXs are a little slow. 64MB version 'cause of all the hi-res mods you'll be using.

Of course if the Kyro drivers can get themselves sorted out and ATI bothers to support fog tables, well, then the choices get a bit harder.

- Chris

[ 08-22-2001: Message edited by: Wolfe ]

[Panzer76]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Wolfe:

Now this is just silly. 4xFSAA on the V5 is a *HUGE* improvement. Not only do objects seem more '3D' because object edges are straighter and don't "crawl" across the screen, but the amount of pixel popping and texture shimmer is reduced by a couple orders of magnitude! Turning FSAA completely off in CM is almost nauseating. The difference is really enormous. I don't know how I stood it before.

(...)

Turning things up to 1600x1200 doesn't even come close to the image quality you get with the V5 at 1024x768 w/ 4xFSAA (or even at 800x600x16x4). Believe me, I tried.

[ 08-22-2001: Message edited by: Wolfe ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

FSAA uses a large amount of memory, and you even worse still if you try to run it in 32 bit mode.

Example:

16 bit 640*480 FSAA 2x2 = 7.4MB

16 bit 640*480 FSAA 3x3 = 16.6MB

32 bit 640*480 FSAA 2x2 = 15MB

32 bit 800*600 FSAA 2x2 = 23MB

16 bit 1280*960 No FSAA = 7.4MB

As you can see, you are dependent of large amounts of memory to use FSAA efficently, and I would rather run my game @ 1280*960 with no FSAA than @ 640*480 with FSAA 2x2.

However, gfx cards are getting more and more on board RAM, but still it would have problems with, lets say 32 bit 1280*960 FSAA 2x2. I think its a personal preferance, of which I prefer the higher resoultion and colour depth instead of FSAA. Ofcourcem the best thing would be both

[Shatter]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Maximus:

Hey kid, don't be pushin' that out-o-date stuff on my poor ol' Mickey ther ya see. Just cuz yuz got sucka'd inta buyin' bad crack don't mean Mickey has to bite.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

---------------------------------------------

I went through this very same thing, when I got a new card.

First I bought a Voodoo 5500 AGP no real problems except some games don't like the OpenGL option and different anitalaising options, but all games will play, you just have to figure out the correct settings for the game. 95% of games will play on any setting. CM the only thing is when using 4X anti-alaising,then you hit ESC to go to desktop then back to CM the interface is wacky and miscolored. Fine on single on all other settings, but 4X anti-alaising gives best graphics a look. Honestly, CM very nice looking on 4X anti-alaising.

So since their was a few problems (but nothing major), I decided to go get a Geforce 2 GTS.

Nothing but problems, was not impressed at all with the card. Although it was nice looking graphics wise, I think the Voodoo 5500 AGP is better. Plus damn thing made games flicker,crash,sound was all screwed up. For instance background sounds in games would skip really bad. Now I know it was not my sound card because had Voodoo had no problems with sounds.

So I went back again and got the Voodoo 5500 AGP back and have been happy with it ever since. Although while playing CM I had to learn not to go to the desktop. So if you wanted to take a pick of CM with 4X anti-alaising on you have to hit print screen, save game, then exit CM, paste pic, then start CM again to play. Not that big of a deal.

So that my 2 cents

Shatter

[Panzer76]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Shatter:

Nothing but problems, was not impressed at all with the card. Although it was nice looking graphics wise, I think the Voodoo 5500 AGP is better. Plus damn thing made games flicker,crash,sound was all screwed up. For instance background sounds in games would skip really bad. Now I know it was Shatter<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

It has do be some software/hardware settings on your PC that led to this, the GeForce2 itself is a good gfx card.

[Maniac]

Hey my first post here.

I am new to the PC world. I got a PC 2 weeks ago & CM arrived yesterday. A friend introduced CM to me about a month ago, so I bought me a PC and a Video Card, which is a Voodoo 5500 AGP(I guess, thats what the box says). I noticed something on an earlier post in this thread about drivers and updating them.

What are Drivers and do I need to get new ones or what?

I went to the link and noticed loads of Voodoo drivers, but none say Voodoo 5500 AGP. Only Voodoo 4/5 AGP/PCI. Is this the driver I need, or do I need a new driver at all?

[Shatter]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Panzer76:

It has do be some software/hardware settings on your PC that led to this, the GeForce2 itself is a good gfx card.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

---------------------------------------------

Ya, after going to school and getting a degree in computer networking. I think I know when something is just a software or hardware or a setting related problem. I installed the Geforece into my other PC and the same thing happend. I think it was probably just a bad card. Anyways I like the look of Voodoo 5500 better anyway.

[ 08-23-2001: Message edited by: Shatter ]

[Panzer76]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Shatter:

Ya, after going to school and getting a degree in computer networking. I think I know when something is just a software or hardware or a setting related problem. I installed the Geforece into my other PC and the same thing happend. I think it was probably just a bad card. Anyways I like the look of Voodoo 5500 better anyway.

[ 08-23-2001: Message edited by: Shatter ]<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

As you said yourself, it must be a bad card then. Because the problems you are describing isn't a regular problem with the GeForce2. You made it sound like the GeForce2 card in general had lots of problems, which it has not.

[Shatter]

Well I probably should have been a little clearer about the Geforce video card.

I just had problems with one card. I was tired of messing around with installing cards after 3 trips to store, so I just went to the Voodoo.

I do have several friends who are very happy with their Geforece cards. Eventually when the Geforce 3 goes down in price, I will pick one up, since the support for Voodoo will be dead. I have not seen a Geforce 3 yet, but I think the Voodoo 5500 AGP looks better than the Geforce 2 GTS.

[Panzer Meyer]

Does any one know if i will be able to see

fog on my ATI Rage card with CMBB

are Battlefront going to incorporate a

new fog emulation table that my damn card

can read ?

[Panzer76]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Shatter:

yet, but I think the Voodoo 5500 AGP looks better than the Geforce 2 GTS.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I remember when I had my good old Voodoo1, when 3Dfx and Glide was king of the hill, oh, how sweet Quake was, or was it DoomII, benn awhile!

But see what happens, 3Dfx becomes arrogant, and suddenly nVidia is the king, any similarities with Intel vs AMD perhaps?

[Schrullenhaft]

Panzer Meyer - Unfortunately your ATI card will probably never support the fog-tables that CM uses. I don't think that BTS will change the type of fog in the game, since vertex-based fog may cause a host of problems with other cards (not sure on that) and still may not work with your ATI. I'm also not sure how hard it would be to program support for vertex-fog and whether it would actually fit into the 3D engine of CM.

[Wolfe]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Maniac:

What are Drivers and do I need to get new ones or what?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I use the V5 1.04 Beta drivers because they seem to be the most compatible, but I'm still running DirectX 7.0a; I haven't bothered with DX8 yet. If you're using DX8, then get the WHQL certified drivers found on the 3dfx page.

But unless you're having problems with a particular game, then leave things alone. There's no need to upgrade if you're not having problems. Though you might want to download the drivers and save them on your hard drive just in case you do need an upgrade. That website may not hang around forever.

And yes, the Voodoo 5500 is the same as the Voodoo 5.

- Chris