Franko Posted February 2, 2001 Share Posted February 2, 2001 Okay, suffice to say, I love combat mission. I have been designing scenarios for the CM community for months, and operations, too. Now, I don't want to be another ranting person complaining about the Operations programming or whatever, but BTS must clarify some of the assumptions and answer some questions behind its Operations model, to aid all of us who are dedicated to designing historically accurate and playable Ops, to wit: 1. Specifically how are the frontlines calculated between battles, and does it matter whether the Operation is set to advance, destroy, or assault for the purpose of this calculation? Whats the formula? 2. How are supply replenishments calculated? at the various settings..and how does the time settings (e.g., the quantity of battles per day) impact this? 3. Vehicle Recovery and Repair -- what ARE the chances for the various settings? 4. What does the "end of the map" mean for Advance or Assault operations? when ONE tank, or squad can exit off? It gets kind of stupid when there's only 100 meters left and the losing side suddenly gets a ton of guys along the remaining strip of territory. 5. On page 115 of your manual, it states "It may take a few tries to understand the subtleties of the [Operations types], but the more you think about historical examples, the better your options will be." Now, I think I've thought about historical examples as much as the next guy..Can you clue me into some of these subtleties? I mean, this is sort of a cop-out statement. I'd be willing to sign a non-disclosure agreement if you're worried about trade secrets. I'm serious. I just want to design cool stuff where dumb things don't happen much. 6. Reserve Pools. How are the "battalion", "regimental" or "divisional" reserves triggered? Can you be more specific than the "things start hitting the fan" stuff contained in the manual? 7. Do you have more developed information that you can release to the CM community that will aid in scenario/operations design? 8. If you do not wish to disclose the information requested for in this post because you're too dang busy doing CM2 or whatever, would you consider disclosing it to me, or some other member of the CM community, so we can write a handy manual to be posted for everyone to use? I truly love the simulation you've developed guys, and agree with your company's principles. We hard-core grognards want to design the best stuff possible using the brilliant engine you've developed. Oh, and one more thing...I've searched all the threads and I havent found anything that answers these questions to my satisfaction. Frank "Franko" Radoslovich ------------------ Ruth, Ruth! We March! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted February 2, 2001 Share Posted February 2, 2001 I second the motion for an article at CMHQ or by a third party; the subtleties of such things as victory conditions in the different types of operations are proving to be beyond me. Maybe Wild Bill or some of the others on his scenario design team can help out? Thanks for asking this Franko, I've been curious too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franko Posted February 2, 2001 Author Share Posted February 2, 2001 Shamelessly bumping Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanco Posted February 2, 2001 Share Posted February 2, 2001 Although not scenario design related, I too would like to add my voice to those who would like to know some of the mathematical formula used in CM. Movement rates: How much faster is Run compared to Move? 300%? 200%? 169.2238%?? It's not in the book. And I would like to know for Crawl and Sneak too. I mean, I suppose I could just run a series of 400m races and compare the results, but can't we just know the exact number? Sometimes I want the HQ and 2 squads to come out of the treeline together when making an assault on a position, to maximize their morale during the assault. Sometimes calculating the amount of Pause and Move/Run orders needed to get this to happen becomes a real hit and miss proposition. I imagine the real life counterparts would have a bit less trouble than that, as the CO could just say, 'everybody break from the treeline together'. So that's why I would like to "micromanage" movement in these situations. Not to distract from Franko's request (I too would like to know this) but I felt this was along the same general lines of making more specific information about CM available to the general public. (edit) Along the same lines, I would like to know how much slower damp ground is to cross compared to dry, snow, etc. And what percentage of visibility is lost between day/dusk/night. ------------------ DeanCo-- CM interface mods: http://mapage.cybercable.fr/deanco/ so many games...so little time [This message has been edited by deanco (edited 02-02-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illo Posted February 2, 2001 Share Posted February 2, 2001 BUMP!!! Franko you make best scenarios available for CM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkEzra Posted February 2, 2001 Share Posted February 2, 2001 This is an important issue for all scen designers. I hope CM Design team members will pick up on this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted February 2, 2001 Share Posted February 2, 2001 Although I'm not a scenario designer, I am interested to read the answer to #3. IMO, I think that feature needs to be revisited, as I have had enemy vehicles dragged clear while surrounded by friendly troops! ------------------ "I do like to see the arms and legs fly" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Heidman Posted February 2, 2001 Share Posted February 2, 2001 The problem is that a lot of this stuff BTS wants to hide from the player, but it is stuff the scenario/op designer definitely needs to create balanced scenarios. The current method for op design is basically to try something, and then see if it works. This is pretty hard to do when it comes to things like seeing when reinforcements will enter, and from where, how to deal with scenario to scenario front line determination. It is frustrating. Right now I think the Ops are the most intriguing way to play CM, but at the same time the most frustrating. The relatively poor documentation in the manual does not help the situation. Jeff Heidman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Germanboy Posted February 2, 2001 Share Posted February 2, 2001 Hmm, interesbumping questions. At http://www.Der Kessel.com there is a steady stream of hits in the historical ops section, indicating a demand we would love to satsify, but find very difficult to do, due to the design questions. Designing good scenarios is a long-winded process as it stands, I have not even tried ops yet. The ones I played I did not really enjoy, some because they were badly designed, some because they were buggy (skipping battles) and I fear to waste hours on it for no gain. Any clarification would help the design community greatly. ------------------ Andreas Der Kessel Home of „Die Sturmgruppe“; Scenario Design Group for Combat Mission. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RudeLover Posted February 2, 2001 Share Posted February 2, 2001 IMO Franko's designs are very, very good. Not that I have any standing to do so, but I'd nominate him for the design team for the release scenarios in any and all subsequent versions of CM...all of his work is very detailed and well-researched, with plenty of 'pucker factor.' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franko Posted February 2, 2001 Author Share Posted February 2, 2001 Thanks Rude! They'd get better if I could have some of those questions answered! Frank Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Napoleon1944 Posted February 3, 2001 Share Posted February 3, 2001 I also did not find any satisfactory explaination in the manual. I had to use trial and error in my Operations. I would like to see what triggers reserves, especially divisional. I thouht BTS would have an update on this by now. ------------------ The only enemy I fear is nature. -Napoleon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Treeburst155 Posted February 3, 2001 Share Posted February 3, 2001 This is good. It needs to stay at the top until BTS responds. Our beloved scenario and ops designers should have the answers to these questions. My thanks goes to all you guys. I appreciate what you do. Treeburst155 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franko Posted February 3, 2001 Author Share Posted February 3, 2001 Bump Already! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illo Posted February 3, 2001 Share Posted February 3, 2001 up we go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hawk Posted February 3, 2001 Share Posted February 3, 2001 Hmmm ... allready halfway down the page. Can't have that, now can we? ------------------ Our's is not to reason why, our's is but to do and die! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drift Posted February 3, 2001 Share Posted February 3, 2001 I would also like clarification on Frank's question #4 regarding what end of the map means. In the course of playing his operation "Battle of Butgenbach" I could not get my German forces to "Exit" the end of the map, and did not know if the forces had to be spread out along the entire edge to control the whole front, or what percentage of forces had to actually touch the end of the map. At any rate, I grew frustrated because I destroyed all American forces (twice) within two turns, but I would have to continue all 25 turns only to begin a new battle when American reinforcements arrived. Prior to the next battle I would advance all my infantry to the end of the map (I would leave my vehicles in place {approx 100 meters short of the end} for fear of bogging down). After two such episodes, I finally quit as I didn't wish to continue the "Shoot-Out at the OK Corral" where the hopelessly outnumbered American forces were distroyed along their tiny 1/2 inch strip of setup turf within two turns. This leads to another design question regarding the AI behavior during an "Advance" operation. I don't believe I could have successfully advanced as the German's in the "Battle of Butgenbach" if the defenders had not left their defensive positions. I was able to "advance" only because I waited for the American's to ATTACK me! (so I could destroy their exposed forces) which in reality dosen't make a lot of sense. I believe the AI needs some work here if possible. IF the object for the defender is to hold up an advance to the end of the map, they shouldn't be leaving their foxholes and cover to attack an unseen advancing force which is exactly what the defending American AI forces did during the Battle of Butgenbach. Wish to end by saying this is a great game I enjoy playing, and I thank those of you willing to build scenarios and operations for the benifit of those of us who just like to play. Thanks, Drift Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franko Posted February 3, 2001 Author Share Posted February 3, 2001 Bumping for days Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackhorse Posted February 3, 2001 Share Posted February 3, 2001 Frank, just want to publicly acknowledge the excellence of all your scenarios. Keep up the great work. I hope BTS answers your questions to help you continue making the best scenarios possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregory Deych Posted February 3, 2001 Share Posted February 3, 2001 Bumpty-bump. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juardis Posted February 4, 2001 Share Posted February 4, 2001 BTTT And bttt it will keep going until you reply Steve or Charles or Matt or Kwazydog. It's a very valid question IMHO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Dorosh Posted February 4, 2001 Share Posted February 4, 2001 Originally posted by Juardis: BTTT And bttt it will keep going until you reply Steve or Charles or Matt or Kwazydog. It's a very valid question IMHO. Give them a break until Monday, boys. They may be spending time with their wives/girlfriends, you know. Don't know what the weather is like where you live, but it is like summer in Alberta today. Gotta love them Chinook winds. I can see their reluctance to part with the keys to the shop - game designers, like girls, need to have their secrets. But since scenario design (and espeically operation design - what a fantastic idea that was!) was one of the major selling points of the game, I do think a fuller (more full??) explanation of the intricacies of some points is in order. I tried to have an advance/assault operation but it always ended after battle one and I would have no idea why; really sucks to have to play the same 25 turn scenario six times just to realize whatever you are doing isn't the right thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juardis Posted February 4, 2001 Share Posted February 4, 2001 Originally posted by Michael Dorosh: Give them a break until Monday, boys. They may be spending time with their wives/girlfriends, you know. Why those 2 timing, cheatin, no good for nuttin' low life....ahem, excuse me. Where was I? Oh yeah, this was like 6 posts down. Can't have that, must...stay...at...top...til...Monday! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JPS Posted February 4, 2001 Share Posted February 4, 2001 BTTT Balanced operations are great, but awfully hard to design and _test_. BTS - some insight into the code would help, and I'm sure operation designers will be able to give you valuable feedback for CM 2! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Franko Posted February 4, 2001 Author Share Posted February 4, 2001 Super Bang for the Bump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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