QB PBEM ettiquette

[Brian Smith]

I have just started some PBEMs and the first two set-ups were sent to me by my opponents. Now I am starting to generate QBs for PBEM and sending them back for subsequent games, so I wanted some of your thoughts on the ettiquette of QB map and force selection (did a search, but this particular issue didn’t seem to be covered).

I’ll start by saying I trust the two guys I am playing, so I have no problems with the maps and set-ups I got from them (we discussed what forces, hills, weather etc beforehand), but now that I am setting up QBs, what is the appropriate ettiquette?

For instance, if we agree on force make-up, points, weather and map size and hilliness etc, should I just send off the first random map and force that is generated, or is it okay to keep generating QB maps until I get one that seems to favour me (although, as a newbie I have found that set-ups that I at first thought favoured me rapidly proved not to be the case)? Say I want to play with a force that has tanks rather than a mess of armoured cars, or I want veteran troops rather than a greater number of regulars, or I want to try a QB with a spotter? Can I generate QBs until I get one that seems to meet my requirements and then send it off, or should I take pot luck?

In playing future QB PBEMs, should I assume that my opponent has chosen the map and force mix that they think best favours them, or is it more likely that it is purely random for both of us?

[Speedy]

Send off the first map generated.

[Panzer Leader]

Wait a minute! You can't see the map until you've picked forces and the other guy has too. What are you talking about?!?!

[Wilhammer]

In versions up to 1.05, you could save a QB before you chose sides, thus getting a chance to view the map before forces were chosen.

This is the only way I know of to see and check out maps before a QB setup.

[Guest NigelO]

Originally posted by Panzer Leader:

Wait a minute! You can't see the map until you've picked forces and the other guy has too. What are you talking about?!?!

Er, allowing the computer to select forces starts the game with the setup map, doesn't it?

Seems to me that you should spend your time playing the game, rather than trying to get some nebulous advantage by starting over - but then, you knew that, didn't you?

------------------

Just nod if you can hear me.

[This message has been edited by NigelO (edited 03-28-2001).]

[Brian Smith]

When the map is generated you get to see the actual units the computer has selected (I left this out - I am talking about the computer automatically selecting units, within the constraints of "mechanised, German (Heer)" or the like).

So when you get the map, you also get to see if you have three kangaroos or 1 Sherman etc.

Hope this is clearer.

[Brian Smith]

Thanks for the replies so far - from what I am reading, it seems the computer-picked QB is about the challenge of making do with what you have been given, which seems fair enough.

So, does everyone else just send the first map generated?

[Stuka]

But if you are the one setting up the game, you pick your forces and then the file goes to your opponent to pick his, before you get to see the map.

How can you see the map before your opponent?

[Panzer Leader]

That's what I'm trying to ask too, Stuka. Not that I WANT to, I don't. but I want to know if its possible...

And by the way... how about a turn?

[This message has been edited by Panzer Leader (edited 03-28-2001).]

[Stuka]

Woops, left my reply a little late.

ya gotta be quick around here.

[Stuka]

Originally posted by Panzer Leader:

And by the way... how about a turn?

I think you may be confusing me with someone else.

[Panzer Leader]

... Yes I suppose I am... there's another Stuka running around here somewhere...

[Stuka]

It might be that scum bag, Von Shrad. His email starts with Stuka.

[bigmac@work]

Send the first map that is generated... Hence "Quick Battle". I would think that scanning through multiple QB maps until you find one to your liking would be rather unethical. Just my opinion. Happy CM'n!

Bigmac out!

------------------

All CM All the time!

Check out the Dogs of War CM Players Community

[109 Gustav]

On the subject of PBEM ettiquette, it's nice to ask before you send your opponent a 7500 point mega game. Not everyone's computers can handle them, you know, and not everyone has the patience for such a big map.

------------------

The Last Defense- Made any scenarios? Send them here!

Well my skiff's a twenty dollar boat, And I hope to God she stays afloat.

But if somehow my skiff goes down, I'll freeze to death before I drown.

And pray my body will be found, Alaska salmon fishing, boys, Alaska salmon fishing.

[Joe Shaw]

I always like to send (and receive if someone else is setting the game up) a jpeg of the parameter screen and one of the map choice screen. That way there aren't any surprises (unless random time and weather have been chosen and then both sides are surprised). I've had games that ended up with rather strange parameters that would have changed my purchases. It has the added advantage of being more clear than a written description.

Bascially you want to use the first map generated, even if it favors one side or the other. Any other method wouldn't be fair.

I think that he was bascially saying that he would look at the setup screen and, if it favored one side or the other, he would just bail out of that QB and start another.

Joe

[KiwiJoe]

1 way you can still cheat and see the map with 1.12 is this:

Do a setup and play the QB as per usual. If that map you played on was REALLY in your favour just rename it and send it to another person to play agaisnt. They will of course have to agree to the same settings. Thus its usually a good idea to disagree with the host on 1 or more settings if you dont completely trust them. Ask for the month to be change back 1, or hills to be mod instead of small. However a very "gamey" player could build up quite a data-base of maps that favour 1 side with all types of settings.

[Brian Smith]

Thanks Joe Shaw for the hint regarding the jpegs of set up screens etc. Since I am still learning CM, I am finding QBs against humans to provide a good steep learning curve - but I have found most smallish QB maps (700-800 points) to have almost identical units picked by the computer, for the British in combined arms or even mechanised forces. You usually end up with 3 or 4 Daimler scout cars and regular or veteran infantry. That combination, or 1 Sherman, 1 scout car and infantry.

I guess if I want to learn to handle other types of units, I will have to change some other parameters, like more points, or go to armour.

The point with maps 'favouring' one side or the other is more difficult - so far I find that difficult to judge. Without necessarily knowing what units your opponent has, the map would have to look pretty one-sided to qualify as being favourable to one side or the other. An example - in one ME PBEM I am currently playing, the computer generated a map that I thought favoured me pretty well. It had a cluster of buildings fairly close to my set-up area, including a church that I figured would be a good firebase with great line of sight. In reality though, the lines of sight on my side were limited for almost all my troops and my opponent slaughtered my guys inside the church with an armoured car while I couldn't move my tank without exposing its flanks.

Maybe this is my inexperience, but I doubt my ability to pick a favourable map at this stage. My main reason for wanting to change a QB before starting it would be if the units were not different enough from the last game.

However, to sum up, I think everyone is saying:

1. just send the first map the computer generates (in auto-pick QB games);

2. be clear with your opponent what the variables are;

3. it's not really ethical to keep generating maps until you get one you like.

I'm happy to go along with that. Thanks guys and gals.

Smith

[Gen-x87]

1. Play the 1st map generated

2. War is hell, you need to overcome a map not in your favor

3. I like to pick forces but sometimes letting the comp do the picking it can be interesting and get you out of your mold of using the same units.

Oh ya I am always looking to play somebody of my caliber. I am also a mass newbie

here is my icq# is you want to play brian.

85282989

Gen

[bigmac@work]

Damn Kiwi, you've put WAAYYYY too much time in coming up with ways to cheat.... Whaddup?

------------------

All CM All the time!

Check out the Dogs of War CM Players Community

[KiwiJoe]

Nah I'm far too good to have to cheat I'm just a little paranoid about OTHER people cheating :0

1 thing you can do is say this:

"I resevere the right to refuse the map if it favours 1 side too much".

Some1 I playey asked for this and I was perfectly happy accepting it. Sometimes the map is just tooooo good on 1 side... big hills with cover over-looking the whole map, reverse slope cover for the VLs which are located closer to you etc..

You can usually tell the gamey players pretty quick... when kubel-wagons and mass smg squads come tear out towards the VLs from the start.

[Gen-x87]

You can usually tell the gamey players pretty quick... when kubel-wagons and mass smg squads come tear out towards the VLs from the start. "

Thank god for Arty

Gen

[Croda]

I play CessPoolers. They don't cheat except for the games that I lose.

And except for Herr Oberst. That guy sent me a set-up like I had never imagined possible.

Bottom line - if you're happy with your opponents, keep playing them.

------------------

Woot! - Maximus2k

Stick around while the clown who is sick does the trick of disaster.

You are quite correct, but sniper is an easier term to use than 'Semi-regular soldier hiding out and shooting enemies unawares.' - wwb_99

The New CessPool

I AM CRODA, ENEMY OF THE SCIENTIFIC PROCESS, EVOLUTIONARY PROCESS AND REPRODUCTIVE PROCESS. PETERNZ OWNS MY SIG FILE AND MY MEAGRE SOUL: ANY REASONABLE OFFER ACCEPTED

[Dirtweasle]

Originally posted by Brian Smith:

Thanks for the replies so far - from what I am reading, it seems the computer-picked QB is about the challenge of making do with what you have been given, which seems fair enough.

So, does everyone else just send the first map generated?

Sure, but there are some maps that are so one sided as to be just laughable. So what I do is as KiwiJoe descirbed. Just tell your opponent that if you get a realy bad map you want to refuse it.

[BooM]

You can see the map in a QB.

Select your units. Save the game. Load the game. Enter Bogus password. Purchase Bogus Units. Save the game. Load the game. Enter Setup Mode.

You can see the map before you ever send the first email. For some reason, CM generates the map on the initial load, well before anyone sees it.

I don't use this tactic, but was playing around to test the limitations.

I think it would make more sense to generate the map after both passwords are set, before either player has seen the map (after both players have selected units)

back on topic:

1 vote for playing the 1st generated map