Fred Posted April 4, 2001 Share Posted April 4, 2001 Hello BTS, I'm surprised that the "firing smoke when not ordered" bug is still in the game. I've reported this bug 3 times; two times on this board and once via email to Steve. At least 8 or 9 other customers reported the bug too. I'm using v 1.12 (PC, PIII 800, GeForce 2 GTS, 128 MB RAM) Type of bug: Severe Frequency: Every scenario played, whenever an order to HE shell infantry is given Reproducable: Yes, in every scenario with tanks and/or guns. Description: 1. A veteran Pz IV was ordered to HE shell a british squad in a light building, 300 m away. The Pz IV was unbuttoned, has a clear LOS and no enemy was engaging the Pz IV. Execution: The very first thing the Pz did, was to cancel my order and fire 2 smoke rounds into the building; then, suddenly, he indeed used one HE shell (with good results) vs. the squad. Before firing the next shell, the smoke (that he fired before) obscured the vision to the squad, so no more fire happened. The smoke helped the enemy. 2. A crack 75 ATG (foxhole in woods) was ordered to HE shell a US MG some 400 m away. The ATG was not engaged by any enemy. Execution: The very first thing the ATG did, was to cancel my order and fire 3 smoke rounds into the building; then, suddenly, it indeed used one HE shell (with good results) vs. the MG. Before firing the next shell, the smoke (that he fired before) obscured the vision to the MG, so no more fire happened. The smoke helped the enemy. It goes on, and on, and on... Two major problems arise: a) The smoke almost always (90%) helped the enemy. When in real need(!) of smoke rounds later in the game, they are all gone for these nonsense fire missions! Conclusion: This is neither "smart AI behaviour", nor is it "war is hell and **** happens"; this is simply a serious bug in the Combat Mission code and should be fixed as such. This is the fourth time that I (and others) report this problem, and I really hope that this (the last severe bug in a now nearly flawless code) will be fixed soon. Fred (P.S. I post this message in the technical CM board and in the main CM board). [This message has been edited by Fred (edited 04-04-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dittohead Posted April 4, 2001 Share Posted April 4, 2001 I feel your pain. I think one of the problems is some of the tanks just have too much damn smoke. 5+ rds. It seems the more smoke they have the more inclined they are to use it. At least if they had fewer rounds that would be less annoying when they do fire it against orders. Tanks should have a max of say 3 rds smoke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilhammer Posted April 4, 2001 Share Posted April 4, 2001 I have seen this today and yesterday. For me, I noticed a Stug III fore smoke when smoke load was greater than remaining HE load. The Stug was very reluctant to fire off his last few rounds of HE. PBEM opponent was fully loaded and need to eliminate my well placed MG psotion in the woods. Instead, I was continuosly smoked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted April 4, 2001 Author Share Posted April 4, 2001 Dittohead, but reducing the number of smoke rounds will not help; there are situations when you really need some smoke. I think, BTS should better fix this bug. Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted April 4, 2001 Author Share Posted April 4, 2001 *** bump *** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted April 4, 2001 Share Posted April 4, 2001 Yes, this is rather annoying. What I and some other people do is have your tanks and on-board mortars fire off their smoke rounds at the earliest opportunity. Tank smoke rounds are totally useless in CM anyway because even if you order your tank to fire smoke at an enemy unit it will often change your orders and fire HE or AP instead. So the TacAI will use smoke when you don't want it and will often not let you use it when you do want it, so it's just better to shoot it into some nearby hillside at the beginning of the game and be rid of it before the TacAI screws you with it. ------------------ What a bunch of horsecrap. -Steve [This message has been edited by Vanir Ausf B (edited 04-04-2001).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hnh3_cm Posted April 4, 2001 Share Posted April 4, 2001 I must agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted April 5, 2001 Author Share Posted April 5, 2001 *** bump *** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy w/gun Posted April 5, 2001 Share Posted April 5, 2001 *bump* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Captitalistdoginchina Posted April 5, 2001 Share Posted April 5, 2001 I had a Hummel target a machine gun on the top floor of an already damaged building (one star) from 130 meters....he could have levelled the building with 2 shots and killed the 3 machine guns on the top floor - but the fool fired one smoke round....the .50 cal calmly turned and destroyed him ! Most annoying. In another battle my 2 Infantry guns are keen to fire off all their smoke at the enemy troops in a building before they will eventually fire their HE...but i fear they will be dead before they get that far. If they fire their HE they can destroy the building but they still insist on firing smoke. I agree that it is not right...if i want them to fire smoke i will give the smoke fire order from the menu. CDIC ------------------ "Death solves all problems - no man no problem" J.V.Stalin, 1918 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Space Thing Posted April 5, 2001 Share Posted April 5, 2001 Yes, this is rather annoying. It seems to happen right when you want either a HE or AP round fired in a tight situation. -Like when opposing sides first meet. Please BTS, this should be fixed. Cheers, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Hankey Posted April 5, 2001 Share Posted April 5, 2001 I honestly can't say that I've seen the anomaly myself, and I've played close to 100 or more games PBEM and aginst the AI. In my current PBEM's for instance I have a Hummel, along with his brother in arms, a StuGIII, happily destroying every building my PBEM opponent is currently occupying . No smoke to be seen. In another, I had a Cromwell pick up on a German squad running across a short, open space to assault one of my squads and it also happily decided to blow them to bits. I will admit, however, that in the same game I had two mortars target a Panzer IVG, and they dropped smoke all around it, then stopped firing, but I guessed they figured they couldn't damage it, so they basically told me to forget about it. Next turn I targeted the tank again, and they fired the HE, (they were all out of smoke) but by then the Panzer was wise to the situation and wiped them slick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ellros Posted April 5, 2001 Share Posted April 5, 2001 Haven't seen it either. I routinely shell infantry occupied buildings with M7 Priests, and have yet to see a smoke shell used. ------------------ "No matter where you go, there you are" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiwiJoe Posted April 5, 2001 Share Posted April 5, 2001 It seems the problem exsists when you order a tank to fire HE at enemy infantry that is firing at 1 of your units. The Tac Ai takes over and decides to fire smoke instead to block the enemy infanty's LOS to your unit. However, as mentioned, 99% of the time simply firing HE would do a better job since the 1st round would probably make the enemy infantry hit the dirt and stop firing. The smoke round, on the ohter hand, take 20 secs or so to work and so the Tac AI's decision is usually a bad 1. The fix for this, as I see it, is to NEVER allow the Tac AI to fire smoke unless all other runds have been used. Tank smoke rounds are only useful in a hand full of situations that are better controlled by the human player at the start of rounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterk Posted April 5, 2001 Share Posted April 5, 2001 I just saw this one last night in v.1,12 with an german infantry gun. Very low on all ammo. Ordered to shell shattered infanry units in the woods and he smoked them instead and let them escape. p. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybeq Posted April 5, 2001 Share Posted April 5, 2001 I have never personally experienced this anomally (possibly due to my playing style)but if it does indeed exist it would seem to be a HUGE problem. The fix is easy enough. Disable the AI's ability to fire smoke from AFV's. That way all smoke rounds fired would be human controlled. I personally like having smoke in tanks so I wouldn't want it eliminated. Seems like a good temp fix would be to fire off all smoke rounds into the dirt at turn one. As an aside, why is BTS strangely silent on this issue? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Hankey Posted April 5, 2001 Share Posted April 5, 2001 Originally posted by Cybeq: ...Seems like a good temp fix would be to fire off all smoke rounds into the dirt at turn one... Why not just raise a neon sign that says, "Please drop all artillery here", or somefink? Pretty much the same friggen thing. I gotta play you, pal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dschugaschwili Posted April 5, 2001 Share Posted April 5, 2001 I think (can't check it right now) that tanks won't fire smoke instead of HE when area firing. So I guess all those guys who haven't had any problems with leveling buildings have used area fire. Of course this might be a dirty workaround in some situations (read: stationary target). Can somebody test this? Dschugaschwili Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holien Posted April 5, 2001 Share Posted April 5, 2001 To add weight to this. I have seen this and continue to see (before smoke billows) this happen in games. The latest was a MKIV opening up on Yanks in Bushes some distance away 500+. Rather than wiping the squad it fired smoke. As for buildings and the future I am inclined to issue orders to fire HE at the building or ground near the troops. I think when you do this it does not use smoke. It does mean that you are no targeting the unit directly but might produce the same effect. So don't target troops, target ground near them. H P.s. It would be a nice to have a fix but does not make the game unplayable so I guess people should get used to it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanco Posted April 5, 2001 Share Posted April 5, 2001 I know next to nothing about WWII, and this bug is the only time I've ever 'reported' a bug on this forum. Even someone who is basically ignorant about armies, WWII, etc can see that this is wrong. Funny though, all the other bugs in the game have gotten fixed quickly. I'm just guessing, but this MAY be a thorny problem programming-wise. Maybe that's why it hasn't been addressed yet. At any rate, I know that BTS is checking this board all the time, so it's sure they at least know about it. Their past record with this kind of stuff (bug-fixing) has been top-notch, as I think everybody who hangs out here knows. So let's be cool and see what BTS has to say. Even, 'we don't have time right now to look at it because of CM2' would be welcome. ------------------ DeanCo-- CM interface mods: http://mapage.cybercable.fr/deanco/ so many games...so little time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Martin Cracauer Posted April 5, 2001 Share Posted April 5, 2001 This is probably related to the bug in thread 017753 http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/Forum1/HTML/017753.html Fred, is it possible that the enemy squad moved a little? So that LOS was broken, that the order was transferred from a unit-attack into an area-fire command and at that occasion the wrong shell was chosen? Would that fit what you've seen? A savegame that shows this bug on the next move would be most welcome! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiwiJoe Posted April 5, 2001 Share Posted April 5, 2001 Nah I had a Panther target a MG in a Light building. It fired 1 HE then 3 smoke rounds which blocked further shots. The mg didnt move and was in LOS the whole time... till the smoked started Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rex_Bellator Posted April 5, 2001 Share Posted April 5, 2001 Sad to say I too see smoke regularly pumped out by my ubiquitous 2inch mortars when playing as the Brits. If you tell them to fire at infantry they usually drop one or two rounds of HE at most and then switch to smoke. Ah well, it's not exactly life threatening and I for one can live with it - let's just get CM2 out because no game will ever be totally perfect. ------------------ In blossom today then scattered, life is so like a delicate flower, how can one expect the fragrance to last forever Vice Admiral Takijiro Ohnishi - Commander Kamikaze Special Attack Force Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted April 5, 2001 Author Share Posted April 5, 2001 It happened again. This time I just gave orders to a platoon to flank a enemy position in a small town. One US .50 cal MG (in a building) overwatched my approach path, but I saw no problem, because I gave 3 Pz IVs (around 400 m from the building) the order to HE shell the MG (all had clear LOS and no enemy engaged them). Guess what; ALL Pz IVs fired smoke rounds at the MG, round after round, so that the MG was obscured from the PZs view. My valiant platoon approached as ordered and then the shiny new .50 cal opened up...the assault failed, my platoon was annihilated and I lost the scenario. Thanks to a well known, often reported and nasty bug. Any words from BTS (at least a word why they did not fix it) so far? Before playing the next scenario, I will load it in the customizer and edit all my tanks and guns to zero smoke rounds. What a BS... Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Toleran Posted April 6, 2001 Share Posted April 6, 2001 bumpity-bump Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts