russellmz Posted April 6, 2001 Share Posted April 6, 2001 Originally posted by Fred: It happened again. My valiant platoon approached as ordered and then the shiny new .50 cal opened up...the assault failed, my platoon was annihilated and I lost the scenario. Thanks to a well known, often reported and nasty bug. sucks dude...tough break. hmmm...at least we know the "MG can't stop a human wave assault" bug is not a problem in that game ------------------ russellmz, Self-Proclaimed Keeper for Life of the Sacred Unofficial FAQ. "They had their chance- they have not lead!" - GW Bush "They had mechanical pencils- they have not...lead?" - Jon Stewart on The Daily Show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted April 6, 2001 Author Share Posted April 6, 2001 you are right russel, but the question if (or if not) this bug will be fixed still needs an official answer. Maybe Steve finds the time for at least a short note. Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted April 6, 2001 Author Share Posted April 6, 2001 ***bump to jump*** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted April 8, 2001 Author Share Posted April 8, 2001 **bump** more important than hamsters or the v0 of a 75 L/43 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Juju Posted April 8, 2001 Share Posted April 8, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vanir Ausf B: Tank smoke rounds are totally useless in CM anyway because even if you order your tank to fire smoke at an enemy unit it will often change your orders and fire HE or AP instead. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Not surprising. Smoke is supposed to be fired at terrain, not at units. And Fred; I don't think it's a bug. I don't think BTS thinks it's a bug, so you might as well quit the bumping. CMBO is finished. Time to move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted April 8, 2001 Share Posted April 8, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Juju: Not surprising. Smoke is supposed to be fired at terrain, not at units. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Perhaps I should have been a little more precise. I was indeed refering to targeting terrain in front of an enemy unit, not directly targeting the unit itself. If it is not a bug, it should be a bug. If tank smoke rounds were as unless in RL as they are in the game they wouldn't have bothered with them. I'm not demanding that BTS release a patch to make it work properly, I'm just hoping they make it work better in CM2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted April 8, 2001 Author Share Posted April 8, 2001 Juju, I hope you do not mind it, but what you think is not this important because this behavior is def a bug(read the other postings). And just saying "CMBO IS FINISHED" does not do the trick, at least not until someone from BTS explains why this bug is still in the game after a lot of bug reports from different customers...(BEFORE v 1.12)... And so I bump it again, and again...like it or not... Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cybeq Posted April 8, 2001 Share Posted April 8, 2001 quote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Originally posted by Cybeq: ...Seems like a good temp fix would be to fire off all smoke rounds into the dirt at turn one... <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mr. Hankey: Why not just raise a neon sign that says, "Please drop all artillery here", or somefink? Pretty much the same friggen thing. I gotta play you, pal. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> If you want to play that's fine with me. But I have a very weird schedule and could only guarantee one turn per week. I have only played the AI so far because of this. Now, as for your insulting "neon sign" comment: let me just say it sounds like you would be very easy to manipulate via misdirection. Also, I have never experienced the "bug" being discussed in this thread so I have never had any cause to use my temp fix idea. But I can assure you that the technique I described used against the AI would have no adverse effects or "reveal" your positions. If someone were to use it against a human opponent that person would either be very stupid or would be hoping to draw arty. Hmmm. Now why would someone want to draw artillery? P.S. My name is not "pal" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hnh3_cm Posted April 8, 2001 Share Posted April 8, 2001 Consider thyself bumped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted April 8, 2001 Share Posted April 8, 2001 I had a mortar firing at an enemy vehicle in LOS, then one of my tanks starting firing at the same target, just as I wanted it to. But the stupid mortar team used up it's HE, then started firing smoke, which quickly obscured the target from my tank's fire. Arggh... This is a flaw in the AI, if I want my mortars to fire smoke, I will tell them to. They shouldn't fire smoke just because they happen to run out of HE in the middle of the turn. The only time the AI should fire smoke without orders to do so would be in a situation where the friendly unit was in some kind of serious immediate danger and it felt it had to fire smoke to give itself some concealment. That I have no problem with. But firing smoke needlessly and without orders is an invitation to disaster in many tactical situations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hnh3_cm Posted April 9, 2001 Share Posted April 9, 2001 Quick! Grab hold of somethin'... BUMP Dang bumps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scooter Posted April 9, 2001 Share Posted April 9, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Lee: I had a mortar firing at an enemy vehicle in LOS, then one of my tanks starting firing at the same target, just as I wanted it to. But the stupid mortar team used up it's HE, then started firing smoke, which quickly obscured the target from my tank's fire. Arggh.... <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Smoke should not be fired unless it is ordered to be fired, IMO. Lee, you aren't the only one experiencing this. Why this is tolerated is beyond me. It is an incredible flaw in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted April 10, 2001 Author Share Posted April 10, 2001 Scooter, absolutely right, and so it is quite strange that Steve does not find the time to comment on it (even saying that it will not be fixed would be more than the silence). Btw, my solution worked; before playing a scenario, I now edit all tanks and guns/mortars on my side to zero smoke rounds; and now everything works like a charm and the enemy does not get any more help from my "smoke loveing" tanks and guns... Fred [ 04-09-2001: Message edited by: Fred ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madmatt Posted April 10, 2001 Share Posted April 10, 2001 In short this is a complex issue and not something that can be easily patched again and therefore it is doubtful that it will be for CM. I would ask that you search through the dozens of previous posts where we stated all the issues regarding the use of AI employed smoke and why it has and continues to be a very difficult issue but also one in which many people are devided on. But I will say this, you can stop the Smoke crusade awareness campaign now Fred as its not going to change anytime soon and we saw your posts the first time you made it. Madmatt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted April 12, 2001 Author Share Posted April 12, 2001 Madmatt, first of all, I say "thank you" for answering. But, that was not very satisfying. "This is difficult to change", is , at least, difficult to believe, because this bug was invented in the last patches; it worked like a charm in the first versions of CM. We do not talk about the enemy AI uses of smoke; we talk about the own(!) unit use of smoke. If I want to HE shell an enemy inf unit I use the (t) "Target" order, and if I want to "smoke", I use the "K" ("smoke") order. So whenever I give a "t" order, why should my units use the "k" order instead? Charles was smart enough to invent a "k" order for smoking, and a "t" order for shelling. So, when I order a "t", as a player, I expect a "t", and not a "k". And, Madmatt, nothing against you (I LOVE CMHQ), but I realy would prefer to discuss this topic with someone that really designs the game, aka Steve or Charles... Fred [ 04-11-2001: Message edited by: Fred ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted April 12, 2001 Author Share Posted April 12, 2001 ... and I still think that this topic is more important than the rediculous "PENG" or "Hamsters" threads... Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted April 12, 2001 Author Share Posted April 12, 2001 *** bumpity bump *** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Hankey Posted April 12, 2001 Share Posted April 12, 2001 I really wonder why this bug only seems to affect some people. I've started a couple of other games where targeting a squad in a light building with mobile artillery was a golden opportunity for some easy carnage. The enemy squad was also firing at one of my squads at the same time. At no time did my artillery gun fire smoke. Still got a problem with mortar guys using smoke, though. Maybe a different flavor of the same problem. :confused: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Hankey Posted April 12, 2001 Share Posted April 12, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Cybeq: quote: ---------------------------------------------...Now, as for your insulting "neon sign" comment: let me just say it sounds like you would be very easy to manipulate via misdirection. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Sorry, you're right, I was out of line with that comment. And it does sound like I'd be easy to misdirect. But you'd be wrong... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fred Posted April 12, 2001 Author Share Posted April 12, 2001 Mr, Hankey, not a different problem, but I have dozens of game saves to send, if someone needs some evidence of this bug. All we ask for is that a "t" order is a "t", and not a "k"... Fred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head Mahone Posted April 12, 2001 Share Posted April 12, 2001 You know, I've read about this smoke crap and the whole time I was curious. Sure I've seen my tanks fire smoke instead of HE at infantry a time or two. I didn't care for it when it happened, but it was a rare occurrence and didn't bother me. Now with that said, just the other day my Brother and I started up a QB PBEM. Every, and I mean EVERY mortar and tank that was ordered to fire HE on enemy infantry fired all of its smoke first! This is happening to my Brother’s troops as well. Not only does it let his troops escape and hide out of LOS from my tanks; it uses up my vital smokescreen for infantry advances. I know what was just said has already been discussed so here is my point. I have been playing multiple PBEMs. Seven at the present moment, and many before this QB. Out of all of the other PBEMs, this particular battle is the only QB PBEM I have played. The other PBEMs where previously created scenarios, and I never experienced the smoke problem to this extent. Being that it began with this QB, I am wondering if you guys are experiencing it with QB PBEMs only as well? Mad Matt, I know these things just can't be fixed with the snap of your fingers but please have mercy! This smoke problem is terribly frustrating when it happens and needs looking into. When your mortar/tank units wrongly smokes up enemy infantry only to have your troops advancing without a smokescreen to face a stronger resistance later on is awful! I know I'm flogging a dead horse here but after seeing this happen with EVERY tank/mortar unit in this QB it has for the FIRST time turned C.M. from fun to frustration. -Head PS B.T.S., thanks for the patience you have with us C.M. junkies. You know when we don’t get our “fix” just right, we get grumpy… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head Mahone Posted April 12, 2001 Share Posted April 12, 2001 ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head Mahone Posted April 12, 2001 Share Posted April 12, 2001 !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M. Bates Posted April 12, 2001 Share Posted April 12, 2001 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fred: Mr, Hankey, not a different problem, but I have dozens of game saves to send, if someone needs some evidence of this bug. All we ask for is that a "t" order is a "t", and not a "k"... Fred<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I've noticed this A German 75mm ATG was ordered to area fire a heavy building containing Brit troops. Instead smoke was fired at the building :mad: Why is this annoying and not a piffling insignifance? Well, if the gun HAD fired HE shells, my opponent would have had two broken, much reduced rifle squads in the building!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Head Mahone Posted April 12, 2001 Share Posted April 12, 2001 !!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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