How do you play as the Americans?

[Smack]

Hello, I normally play as British, CW and German. I can't comprehend using the American forces, they seem almost weak in june '44. In Urban fighting, their Bazookas blow more of my men up then the enemies! Their infantry seems ok, but thier lack of support destroys that one small advantage. Bazookas kill their own men in houses, in June of 1944 their tanks are bad, no fireflies to play with

81mm mortars aren't near as effective as 3 inch ones.

HELP Me! I need it!

Thanks!

[Gyrene]

I've played the American side quite a bit and I guess I just got used to their quirks...

Vanilla Shermans work best if you know the location of enemy armor and try to work the flanks in teams, Stuarts are great a shoting on the move and harrasing enemy vehicles (Do not try to go toe to toe with any German tank in a Stuart...), the M8 HMC is a great and underappreciated little vehicle that will dominate any German armor or vehicle in its price range.

Keep your bazooka team away from your troops. No more burned britches

The US 12 man squad have more punch than the Brit or Canadian squads and are more than a match for any German squad at anything but grenade range. US Airborne squads can hold their own against VG SMG Squads. Both have decent AT capabilities with their rifle grenades, which are much better than nothing, esp. when compared to Canadian/French squads.

The US also gets .50 cal MG teams who have no direct equals in other forces (Barring the French) and the 60mm mortar beats the 2 inch mortar any day of the week. The medium MG's of both UK & US play almost the same.

I play all UK & US sides almost the same way, except that I take a few more risks with PIAT teams, due to their stealthier nature they teand to get many more second & third shots than baz teams who have the life span of an Allied Flame Thrower team in a VG convention after their first shot.

If you can play Cromwells successfully, there's no reason you can't drive US Sherms around just as well.

Gyrene

[Sergei]

How do I play as the Americans? Well... there is this village. Then there is this Tiger. My armoured forces are two Sherm's, of which one baby is packing a 76mm (but it soon falls to AT gun). Then I have three bazooka teams, which are able to crawl within 150 metres of the Tiger which is busy blowing up my infantry hidden in the village. Then I order them to open fire and my Sherman to hunt the Tiger (hoping that the Tigger turns its attention to it). Well, my Sherman quickly pulls back to its Mama, but my bazooka teams give all they've got. To no benefit. ALL rounds except one are a miss, and even that one does nothing.

Truly a sad game for someone who has served in the army as an AT man. Too bad you can't execute your own men in this game. (Well, I still got a draw, even though my other Sherman brewed as well and my enemy assaulted my VL's with all crews he got.)

[Guest Babra]

I slouch, chew gum, put my hands in my pockets, and overpay myself.

[Gyrene]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> I slouch, chew gum, put my hands in my pockets, and overpay myself. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Don't forget "I take credit for everything"

Gyrene

[mikeadams]

... oh, and I give myself a couple of medals to impress the local women

[Kanonier Reichmann]

In answer to your question... BADLY!

Regards

Jim R.

[aka_tom_w]

With the Allies Use the Greyhound, put a 'zook on the back, find the BIG ugly German uber tank, (use 81 mm arty, buy at least two FO's) Lay in MAJOR smoke, and in the smoke screen run that Greyhound FAST around its flank into the rear if you can and then dismount the 'zook into some near by cover.Shoot the thing in the ass with both the Greyhound and the zook, if the tank is unsupported its TOAST!

I smoked a KT with this technique by distracting it in the huge smoke screen with the greyhound while the passenger 'zook was dismounted about 40 m to the flank in no cover, but in the heavy smoke and he KO'd the KT with a clean penetrating flank shot on his first attempt! It was only against the AI so I missed out on the opportunity to REALLY piss off a human opponent !

Use a M18 Hellcat or some other armour to keep the ubertank busy frontally as the smoke clears.

Use the .50 cal to shoot up German light vehicles at long range like more than 500 m.

Forget the shermans, buy Greyhouunds and Hellcats and MOVE fast EVERYWHERE.

I prefer the US forces in most situations.

-tom w

[Iskander]

Arty.

Just like in the RealWar, buy all the arty you can and throw it around like a liberal with your money in a housing project.

On-map arty, off-board arty... I buy them all; don't always win, of course, but I always wreak much havoc.

[Stacheldraht]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Forget the shermans<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd amend that to say, "Forget the Shermans as anti-tank weapons." They're quite useful against infantry, though. Treat them more like self-propelled guns, and they can be very valuable. If you insist on engaging enemy armor with them, use speed, surprise, deception, and smoke to flank; work them in pairs or larger groups; and never get in head-to-head duels. (Tanks shouldn't be used that way in general, actually. The idea is to get the first shot off and get a KO then and there, not play ping-pong.)

[aka_tom_w]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stacheldraht:

I'd amend that to say, "Forget the Shermans as anti-tank weapons." They're quite useful against infantry, though. Treat them more like self-propelled guns, and they can be very valuable. If you insist on engaging enemy armor with them, use speed, surprise, deception, and smoke to flank; work them in pairs or larger groups; and never get in head-to-head duels. (Tanks shouldn't be used that way in general, actually. The idea is to get the first shot off and get a KO then and there, not play ping-pong.)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Good point I agree completely.

-tom w

[WWB]

Well, one should play to their advantages, which are as follows:

1) Arty. It has been said of the American Army that they just occupy ground after everything that crawled there was obliterated. While CM does not simulate the American FO system, you can. It would not be unrealistic for a US BN to have 81mm mortars, a battery of 105mm and a battery of 155mm in support for an attack. In fact, it is better to view US forces as scouts for the arty. Find enemy. Run. Call in barrage. Advance over their smoldering corpse. Repeat.

2) US Squads pack quite a punch. 12 men does not hurt at close range, and all semi-auto rifles makes them very deadly at medium range. Not to mention that in 45 the get 2 BARs. Just about the only squads that can go up against Motorized or FJs and hold their own.

3) Hellcats. The ultimate anti-armor weapons. Fast as hell, and once the get tungsten they can deal with anything at medium ranges.

WWB

[Enoch]

Very carefully. No, that's porcupines having...never mind. I think most people have covered the important aspects. The most important thing is not to expose your armor to German tanks at long ranges. Keep them under cover. Buy TD's for anti-armor use. I think they are a better buy then the upgunned shermans in terms of points. As mentioned before, think of your shermans as infantry support weapons. And Arty, lots of arty.

[Kanonier Reichmann]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stacheldraht:

If you insist on engaging enemy armor with them, use speed, surprise, deception, and smoke to flank; <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

So treat them much like you would the Spanish Inquisition... nobody expects them and they have 3, no 4 weapons...or is it 5?

Regards

Jim R.

[Stacheldraht]

Nothing a 75mm gun and a fanatical devotion to the Pope won't handle

[Kanonier Reichmann]

Of course! God was on their side.

Regards

Jim R.

[CombinedArms]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by wwb_99:

Well, one should play to their advantages, which are as follows:

1) Arty. It has been said of the American Army that they just occupy ground after everything that crawled there was obliterated. While CM does not simulate the American FO system, you can. It would not be unrealistic for a US BN to have 81mm mortars, a battery of 105mm and a battery of 155mm in support for an attack. In fact, it is better to view US forces as scouts for the arty. Find enemy. Run. Call in barrage. Advance over their smoldering corpse. Repeat.

etc.

WWB<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

One US division commander claimed that all he did in the march to Germany was move artillery spotters ever eastward. This isn't quite fair to the grunts who did the hard work on the ground, but on one level it does suggest an approach that works for US forces--you can think of infantry as well-armed spotters for both arty and AFVs--who then go in and finish the job.

They are, as noted, more effective with their M1s than most German squads at longer and middle ranges. That means they can advance, spot German infantry or AT guns, survive because of their large squad size, and hold the German infantry at arms length--long enough for tanks to come up and arty to be zeroed in. Then, the inf squads have the punch to go in and finish off the job against German inf. US squads really work best like that--hold the enemy at bay, call in support, add their small arms fire to the support fire, then go in and finish the job at close quarters.

Or, moving always in cover, of course, they can flush out an enemy tank, then survive a few tank rounds while Allied tanks/TDs maneuver into advantageous positions to kill the Axis tanks. They are the eyes of the US tank force, as well as the eyes of the artillery.

As you can see, with US forces you generally have to lead with the infantry--keep armor under cover till you find a target. If you keep pre-spotting arty, you can bring it in pretty fast when you need it. And remember US MGs. They add a lot of firepower for "holding the enemy infantry at bay" and are plentifully supplied with inf and on HTs, tanks (most have 3 MGs) etc.

[ 06-25-2001: Message edited by: CombinedArms ]

[CombinedArms]

Maybe I should add that the 60mm mortars are a valuable part of this package. You get three, I think, with an infantry Co. and while they don't have a huge blast they give you quick HE support and combined with inf & MG fire are great for suppression and can often wipe out a squad or AT gun in short order [not by themselves but in combinations with the other fires]. I tend to group all three with a Platoon or Company HQ and keep them out of direct LOS of the enemy. When I have more than one Co., I sometimes place 4-6 mortars behind cover with a plus-value HQ to spot in good LOS. While they wouldn't be spectacular weapons in themselves, they work extremely well in the total US package. They aren't as fast as the Brit 2" but they have a bigger blast and 50% more ammo. I love 'em.

[ 06-25-2001: Message edited by: CombinedArms ]

[CombinedArms]

Oops, I quoted when I meant to edit.

[ 06-25-2001: Message edited by: CombinedArms ]

[Pak40]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Smack:

I can't comprehend using the American forces, they seem almost weak in june '44.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Weak? The 76mm can punch through most German armor. Sure the 17 pdr is much stronger but the 76mm is usually enough.

The U.S. infantry is much stronger than the British at any range.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> In Urban fighting, their Bazookas blow more of my men up then the enemies! <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hmm, I've had this happen once, maybe twice with a schrek. There's a simple remedy, don't put your infantry in the same building as the bazooka.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>

Their infantry seems ok,

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

OK? see my comment above about U.S. Infantry.

The Brits have pitiful MGs(Vickers is slow to move and slow ROF) and use bolt action rifles as their main infantry weapon.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>

but thier lack of support destroys that one small advantage.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Lack of support???

1)The .50 MG is the best leg infantry support you'll find

1) The Sherman 75 is an infantry killer. 3 mgs (one is a .50) and 70+ rounds of HE. Use this against infantry instead of chasing enemy tanks and you'll do major damage.

2) The Priest: 50+ rounds of of 105mm HE and dirt cheap. Another infantry killer. Enough said.

3) The Sherman 105 is a major infantry killer. all the benefits of the regular sherman but with a 105mm.

Now, none of these has the thick armor as that Churchill VIII but they are all much faster than it. You can learn to use the speed to your advantage.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>

no fireflies to play with

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you're into spending a lot of $ for one tank that can easily be killed by any german tank, then the Firefly is your tank. Otherwise, try spending less for two tanks or TDs. Buy M10s and Greyhounds and put them on the move. The Greyhounds can take out almost any German Armor from the side and since they are fast, they make excellent flankers.

Once the Hellcats are available buy them instead of the M10s. They are just as fast as the Greyhound and shoot well on the move (not that it needs to flank in order to kill)

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>

81mm mortars aren't near as effective as 3 inch ones.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

The Brits have stronger blast in this department but the U.S. 81mm has 200 rounds which makes up for lack of blast.

Learn to use the tools you have and you can kill anything.

[Wreck]

As other have mentioned: avoid Shermans. Sometimes a Jumbo is nice for dealing with guns. But for competitive play, mostly you want to buy M8 cockroaches. In a typical 1250 sort of ME, the German might get 3 hetzers. You get 6 M8s, or maybe 4 and a priest, jackson, or hellcat.

Tactically, you want to avoid dueling at all times, and in fact early on you want to avoid most anti-tank risks. The only hard targets you should actively pursue early on with an M8 are halftracks and other slightly armored vehicles, which you can kill with a .50 cal burst. Once you are out of .50, though, just focus on infantry.

Use area fire against the german infantry. (Obviously you need to know where it is, which is what your own infantry should be doing.) Run away from the hetzers as they manuever to try to get you in their sights. M8s automatically scuttle back from confrontation with serious German armor, which means this is usually fairly easy.

Once you have used up a good portion of your HE, then you are ready to stalk enemy tanks. This should always be done with at least two tubes, be they M8s, zooks, guns, etc. The idea is to use one target somewhere to draw the attention of the German tank, while scooting around to the flank with a second gun. Your turret can be a nice advantage versus an SP gun especially.

The US infantry is relatively weak. Big squads, and lots of junk in each company. I tend to either buy no companies at all, or just buy one (for the company commander) even if I could afford two or more. This leaves the support column free for the purchase of guns (if a wide open map), or generally just more points for M8s and arty.

Regarding arty, my rule of thumb is always to take as much of the largest caliber mortar arty I can get. This works for all of the nations. So with the Amis I load up on 107mm mortars. I only take 81mm offboard if playing with arty limits, or for attacks (where they are needed to place smoke).

Regarding on-map mortars, other than the 76mm they are all junk and should be avoided. I occasionally do use 81mms, though I think over time I have come to avoid maps where guns are dominant. If you are going to play in such a map as Americans, some 81mm might be reasonable to deal with enemy guns.

Mapwise, villages favor Americans, since they tend to have lots more HE than Germans do. I dislike playing in villages, though, since the explosive buildings are so unrealistic. Maps which favor guns (i.e. guns can see objectives from setup), favor Germans with their awesome 75mm inf. As Americans I therefore tend to like to play with moderate woods, to cut down the lines of sight sufficiently so that the Germans cannot win with the wall of guns. Light woods might be sufficient on a flat map; I don't know.

[Guest Babra]

...and I show up late to the party, but that doesn't stop me from bringing my own playlist for the DJ.

[Eric Alkema]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Stacheldraht:

use speed, surprise, deception, and smoke to flank; work them in pairs or larger groups; and never get in head-to-head duels. (Tanks shouldn't be used that way in general, actually. The idea is to get the first shot off and get a KO then and there, not play ping-pong.)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Are the Germans really able to get away with not fighting this way? Most of my fights take place at short enough range that frontal armor is far from a guarantee.

[Stacheldraht]

Not sure I understand the question. My point was that most Sherman models in the game are easy to pop with Mk IV's and StuG III's on up. Avoid tangling with them directly using the lesser (i.e., non-Jumbo, non-Firefly) Shermans; rather use the Shermans primarily as infantry support vehicles, where they shine. It's generally preferable to use AT guns, zooks, and TD's against medium and heavy German armor, in my experience (and historically, from what I gather).

[JasonC]

The Americans fight with combined arms and teamwork. They need to make greater use of arty support against tight terrain areas, while firefighting with infantry initially from farther out, 150-200 yards.

Vehicle fire and support weapons clear out the forward edges of enemy cover, supplimented by infantry overwatch groups. Arty drops on "reverse slopes" - meaning, places you can't get LOS to easily from a reasonable distance, whether caused by hills, woods, or buildings. Vehicle HE flattens the forward buildings too. Infantry mops up with close combat, at grenade and bayonet range, rushing in areas where the defenders have already been killed, broken, or forced to withdraw to break LOS.

Everything is a continuous movement of firepower then infantry onto the target. Americans win by expending -ammo-. US artillery modules always come with more shells than comparable German ones, US tanks come with more HE. Many US vehicles have large MG ammo supplies and large numbers of MGs, while quite a few common German types have less than 50 shots. The Germans have high ammo in some gun types, but they typically do not last long enough to use it all once spotted. The Germans also have good ammo for their HMG teams, so suppressing them is a high priority.

The SMG portions of German squads will fire along with the rest at medium ranges without doing anything to speak of; that is how you can draw their teeth. When you do have to close, close all the way. Numbers matter in close combat and US squads typically have them. Don't give SMGs time to blast away at you at 30-70 yards. 150-200 yards or 5-10 yards, that is where you want to be. Preferably with suppressed enemies between, obviously.

For antitank work, the TDs are best with Sherman 76s next. T ammo will torch almost anything, and 76 and better guns will kill anything from the sides with straight AP. But you want your shooter moving up on a spotted enemy from an angle he isn't facing. Never "fight fair", head to head. Also, remember that German turret armors are typically weaker, and thus they can be KOed more easily (relatively speaking, i.e. compared to them getting you) in hull down duels than in exposed ones.

For forces, use the faster cheap teams. A zook costs only 3/5ths what a schreck does and gets 8 rounds rather than 5. They can even blast buildings for you, and I have often set tiles on fire with them. Use MMGs rather than heavier types, then use them in pairs as an "MG squad". They don't have enough fp alone, but a pair of them are quite robust, and medium speed is very useful compared to slow. Stick with the 60mm mortars from one company purchase.

Use your weapons HQ and the company HQ as additional "support" "platoons". The company HQ can borrow a squad from one of the line platoons if you like, too. The FOs, MMGs, and mortars should go with those two, though sometimes 2 MMGs for an "overwatch" infantry platoon works well. Do not keep the 60mm too far back or you won't get LOS with them. They have medium speed too. Use them in at least two places, so one patch of trees or crestline doesn't take all of them out of the battle, LOS wise.

Buy straight infantry platoons with additional infantry points, not a second company or engineers. If you want close assault ability, take more zooks not flamethrowers. If you want more ranged fire ability, take more MMGs in pairs, not HMGs, 50s, or additional mortars.

Use the heavier arty, not just 81mm mortars. Your artillery edge comes from faster barrages with the heavy types as much as from more shells. Use the 105s and the 155s. 81s are fine for smoke or enemy troops in the open, or moving through woods, but they will not seriously hurt troops in foxholes or buildings. When you do bring down arty, fire it for at least a minute and a half, up to two and a half minutes (1-2 close adjusts included). That is long enough to hurt something with the heavier shells. Your barrages are fast enough to cancel missions and start again.

For vehicle screen types, you want to use the M-8 Greyhounds, the M3A1 halftracks (but not more than 2 or you are spending too much), and if you want to scout then add M-20 scout cars with 50 cals. The M-20s have limited ammo, so they do not fight as well as the other two vehicles, but are cheap enough for scouting work. Jeep MGs are speedy but too easily KOed by infantry fire - use the M-20s instead.

For armor points, others have mentioned the gamey M8HMC. Realistically, a pair of those with Stuarts or M-8 Greyhounds is reasonable, but more is not. A pair of TDs is a good "core" for a combined arms force type, able to do the anti-tank work you will need and cheaply (unless you know the enemy has the infantry force type - then use vanilla Shermans instead). With an armored force type you can afford to take Shermans and include improved types - a W+ or jumbo point tank, 1-2 76s, 0-1 105s, 2-3 vanilla 75s as "wingman" for the better tanks and for infantry killing.

Spend anything left over on more zooks. You will find plenty of uses for them.