MY sharpshooters suck!

[Juardis]

I had an elite sharpshooter with 2 rounds left. He was in the 2nd story of a building, not taking any fire (and never was), had great morale, and a clear LOS to a HMG42 team 423m away. The HMG42 was immobile since there was only one guy left. The HMG42 was pestering my troops and I decided enough was enough. If my sharpshooter wasn't going to willingly fire at him, I was going to order him to fire. Which I did. Twice. He missed both shots. An elite sharpshooter who refuses to shoot and when he does he misses a stationary target 423m away...twice. Pitiful. Absolutely pitiful. Do you think maybe it was because he was a Brit and I ordered him to shoot interrupting his tea time? (that's a joke people although the rant isn't)

I have absolutely no luck with sharpshooters. I have yet to see any of mine kill anything (although they are effective at buttoning up armor).

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Jeff Abbott

[Croda]

I've had similar problems. I try to sneak them around on a flank to get some shots from unexpected angles...they miss and then get buried for their troubles. Anyone who has success with them want to throw out some suggestions?

[patboivin]

I haven't had much success with telling snipers what to do.

I typically sneak them in a high but hidden position, then wait.

The best position I can think of for them would be at the top of a building, where they can stay hidden but have a wide variety of potential targets to select from. Then they usually take single shots. They take their sweet time about it though.

On a happy note I sometimes see enemy tanks suddenly button up, never to unbutton again.

I just place them in a good spot and let them pick their own targets, I find that telling them to target specific units doesn't do much good. Also their priorities rarely match mine, which is realistic I guess since they don't see the whole battle.

[Mr. Clark]

Sigh...

I take some in almost every game I play, hoping that some time, some day, I will see them do SOMETHING I want them to...

Perhaps it's time for me to let it go...

(You would think they could at LEAST suppress an enemy unit now and then!)

[Col Deadmarsh]

I had an opponent take a sniper which buttoned up my Tiger tank from I'm not sure where. Immediately afterward, his AT gun started taking shots at the Tiger. The tiger crew apparently couldn't find them because they were buttoned up and were faced in the wrong direction which allowed the gun to get a frontal/side shot on my tank, blowing it up.

To those of you who put them in buildings and let them take their own shots, are they ever spotted by enemy tanks and shot at or are they pretty good about not being seen?

[Guest Rommel22]

Same here, no luck with snipers either.

Well I had some good times. I was playing the Carentan operation as Germans and had a sniper in one of the Church buildings. 2 Shermans rolled up about 300m + or so. The sniper didn't fire at them, so I ordered the sniper to fire on the leading sherman. I think the sniper killed the commander because the tank never unbuttoned for the rest of the battle same with the second tank.

But snipers against infantry, they suck.

In another situation I had a sniper on top of a hill in tall pines. An enemy MG was moving across open terrain into a building. So I ordered the sniper to fire (The MG was about 150m away) and nothing. The sniper missed all 3 shots before the MG entered the building. By the way the sniper was a vet.

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From the Das Reich book as said by a German soldier

"when the Russians reached us, we opened fire, the first wave had no weapons.

The second wave didn't either (fire fodder). The 3rd and 4th had weapons and opened fire on us.

By this time we were low on ammo, but we drove them back."

[Schugger]

Hi there

Well, I'm quite satisfied with the performance of my sharpshooters.

I usually deploy them behind the main body of my troops so that they keep a good distance to the enemy. I rarly use them for scouting as they seem to have excellent spotting abilities if they are just hidden in a good position with panorama view.

For combat purposes, I let the sharpshooters stay hidden and assign targets to them manually otherwise they waste their ammunition very quicky.

Priority targets are, of course, TCs and they perform very well against them. Even if they don't manage to kill the TC they seem to always force a button up.

This makes them invaluable as you can quickly exploit that advantage by moving one of your tanks against the one that just had buttoned up.

Do not waste your sharpshooter's ammo on squads, platoon HQs or MG teams especially if they are moving. They do a fine job in surpressing units, so if an enemy MG unit is denying the advance of one of your platoons spend one of your rounds.

Hope this helps to some degree

[Slapdragon]

423 meters away? Has anyone here actually shot a rifle? I mean, at 423 meters a .30 cal has a drop of something like 6 feet.

Now I know that as soon as I post this I will be getting, "well I shot the face out of a dollar bill at 10000 meters with a .22" comments, but 400 meters is quite a shot, which is why the guy was not firing. At 400 meters my groups with an M1 Garand on iron sites is like a meter and no one is possibly shooting at me. I can do better with an M700 and a scope, but those guys had Springfields, I bet they missed all the time.

[Guest *Captain Foobar*]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>To those of you who put them in buildings and let them take their own shots, are they ever spotted by enemy tanks and shot at or are they pretty good about not being seen?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

They can be spotted, but not as easily as many other units.

[Oompa-Loompa]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Now I know that as soon as I post this I will be getting, "well I shot the face out of a dollar bill at 10000 meters with a .22".<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Actually I THREW the bullet through the face of a Dollar bill at that range

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"Do not needlessly endanger your lives until I give you the signal"

Dwight D. Eisenhower

[Fenris]

Hi all,

FYI.....I set up an AT ambush range the other day. Some woods to hide in and a big field for the tanks to cross to the victory flags.

At the last minute I put in some sharpshooters and some dismounted flamethrower units as targets.

The sharpshoots killed off all the flamer's within the first few turns. I had to give them the order (as they'd taken shots at the tank commander's first) but once they started firing it didn't take long for the 2 man flamer teams to be eliminated. Range was 350m out to 460m and they'd all be pinned or fleeing for the 3 odd turns it took to finish them off. Sharpshooters were veterans.

Reg's

Fen

[109 Gustav]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Slapdragon:

423 meters away? Has anyone here actually shot a rifle? I mean, at 423 meters a .30 cal has a drop of something like 6 feet.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Absolutley right. The 30.06 is a fairly low velocity round, so it gets a lot of drop past 200m, as I have found out when shooting my Winchester model 70. Wind also has a big effect at that range. Not only that, but it takes some time for the bullet to travel that far. This isn't important when shooting at a paper target, but when sniping at people, they have to be agreeable enough to stay still for a second or two.

In real life, I suppose that because the MG team only had one man left, he would be moving around a lot more than usual, making him all that much harder to hit.

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Well my skiff's a twenty dollar boat, And I hope to God she stays afloat.

But if somehow my skiff goes down, I'll freeze to death before I drown.

And pray my body will be found, Alaska salmon fishing, boys, Alaska salmon fishing.

-Commercial fishing in Kodiak, Alaska

[Juardis]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by 109 Gustav:

Absolutley right. The 30.06 is a fairly low velocity round, so it gets a lot of drop past 200m, as I have found out when shooting my Winchester model 70. Wind also has a big effect at that range. Not only that, but it takes some time for the bullet to travel that far. This isn't important when shooting at a paper target, but when sniping at people, they have to be agreeable enough to stay still for a second or two.

In real life, I suppose that because the MG team only had one man left, he would be moving around a lot more than usual, making him all that much harder to hit.

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I understand it's difficult. But he was elite for crying out loud. His bio read "the best shot there ever was and ever will be". Not only should he shoot the eyes out of George Washington at 10000m, he should be able to part his hair as well. Seriously, with a range of 600m and being elite, I would at least expect a 50% chance to hit a stationary target with 1 shot, 99% with 2 shots. Otherwise, I could throw hamsters and gerbils from that distance and have the same effect.

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Jeff Abbott

[Wolfe]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>To those of you who put them in buildings and let them take their own shots, are they ever spotted by enemy tanks and shot at or are they pretty good about not being seen?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Foobar is right that sharpshooters in buildings are tougher to spot than regular units, but they still seem to be rather easy to spot to me, even when placed fairly deep into the structure. I try to avoid 2nd story sniper nests; good players will often recon by fire at obvious buildings that have great views to get rid of arty spotters, MG nests, and sharpshooters.

I do my best to find woods or pines that have good overwatch positions to sit my snipers in (I'll even run them up to a good spot with a fast vehicle so long as I think neither will be spotted on the journey). Just don't sit them too close to the edge of the wood line. With scattered trees, I try to sit them ~centrally in the square. Just be aware of the time of year as LOS through trees does change with the date (winter months allow greater LOS).

I don't care for wheatfields, even in summer; they don't seem to hide units very well at any time of the year. Same for brush and marsh. Not good shooting places. And once spotted and brought under fire, hiding them doesn't help protect them any from enemy fire. It does in woods, however (to the point that the enemy will even lose contact).

So long as they're not shooting, snipers in woods are extremely difficult to spot; I've had enemy troops literally walk right next to them but never see them. I never even hide snipers unless the enemy is *right* on top of him. I then unhide once they've passed. Another reason not to put them in buildings is if an enemy squad walks (or even flees ) into a building you didn't expect them to enter, they're rather likely to spot your sharpshooter on the 2nd story, even if he's hiding.

Don't target them to anything; just set them up and let them do their thing. They will occasionally do damage to enemy squads, but its real role is tank buttoning and taking out the occasional expensive team like flamethrowers or arty spotters. They're also great for spotting enemy troops movements so you know where to target your own arty.

Once buttoned, the AI will never unbutton its tanks again for the rest of the battle, and having your tanks constantly buttoned each turn is frustrating for a human opponent. IMO, StuGs and StuHs become rolling coffins once buttoned.

Sharpshooters: never leave home without them.

- Chris

[Berlichtingen]

Ok, sharpshooters work best if you let them pick thier own targets. Best to get them in position and leave them alone... they can be rudely effective.

Top story of buildings and woods make good positions for them... but don't put them right at the edge. Set them as far back as you can while still maintaining LOS.

Hitting a man sized target at 500m with an M1 or a Springfield is not that hard from prone or braced firing positions... over open sights.

[Slapdragon]

You have better eyes than I do, I classify 500 meters as a tough shot even on a deer, one that I mostly pass up rather than risk it.

[Guest KwazyDog]

Hehe, well Ive had bad luck with them whilst on the recieving end, thats for sure !

Currently I am playing a large battle in hilly terrain in the rain where my opponent has around 3-4 veteran snipers. So far Ive lost approx. 3 mortars, 1 HQ, one truck and worst of all around 4 tank commanders to the damn things

Juardis, one thought, at that range did you have full spotting on the HMG team (ie. did you have a man count)? HMG teams consist of usually around half a dozen guys, so with 2 round he could only hit a couple of guys, which might not necessarily take the team out.

[Juardis]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by KwazyDog:

Juardis, one thought, at that range did you have full spotting on the HMG team (ie. did you have a man count)? HMG teams consist of usually around half a dozen guys, so with 2 round he could only hit a couple of guys, which might not necessarily take the team out.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Most definitely one man left. I had units closer to it than my sharp, they were just out of ammo. Some good advice from all folks, I mainly use them for buttoning and I usually let them pick their own targets. However, an elite unit should hit damn near everything they fire at IMHO.

BTW Kwazy, I just started All or Nothing. Looks fun. Good thing I allowed myself to move my units during setup though. I had an armored car stuck in a light house (playing as Brits). You might want to look into that.

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Jeff Abbott

[Slapdragon]

Sniper movies have given us the idea that sharpshooters are supermen. This also comes from going to the range. With no one trying to kill you and all the time in the world, sniping seems easy.

In reality, any rifleman has trouble shooting accurately past 200 meters. One of the myths generated was that aimed firing was deadly out to the range of the rifle, but in real terms a Marine Rifleman expended around 900 rounds of .30 cal for each kill in WW1, and maybe twice that in WW2.

A look at modern sniping helps us see the issue. In the gulf war the longest range shot was around 1000 meters (per K.Dockery). Snipers with scopes on WW2 rifles fired most shots at under 300 meters.

[Von Brizee]

I have good luck with them. Try and make them hold their fire and let the enemy pass them by. Then shoot at his rear area units like mortars, spotters, and high-level HQ's.

They are also superb against assault boats . I had one kill 3 Assault boats, thus killing 30 men.

The record for a single shot for me is one sniper killed 5 men in a mortar team with one shot, it was great!

[Mr. Clark]

Can you guys send me some of your snipers? I'm selling mine off cheap!

I'll try the suggestions here! Thanks!

[Berlichtingen]

The average rifleman blows off rounds left and right... snipers are not average riflemen. They take their shots when they are sure of them. Hitting a moving target at 500m is rough... stationary is easy. Most Marine recruits can put 10 out of 10 in the black at 500m. Snipers are much better marksmen.

Part of the reason that sharpshooters in CM seem to be doing nothing, is simply time spent waiting for shots. I have seen them play decisive parts in may battles. Like I said before, position them and then leave them alone. Chances are they are causing more damage than you realize.

[CrapGame]

Berli is right. Let them pick their own targets at their own time. I have had an elite one take out an Arty Observer at 575m (open flat terrain), and believe me, they button up tanks real fast, when you let them pick their own targets. I hated them at first, but they are very valuable assets when you employ them correctly.

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CrapGame

[Thermopylae]

A shot at over 400m with WWII rifles is a pretty difficult feat. I've gotten to fire a mauser 98k , at a nice 8X6 in coleman fuel can (empty) at the 250 mark, and it took 2 open sighted shots to hit the thing, and the second shot was an outside glance, not in the center. (later, wehn I got to use an M-14 {civilian} my shooting was remarkably better ) The fuel can is probably about the size of a bent over soldier at 500m, and seeing as how hitting it posed problems for a half-way decent marksman on a range, I'd imagine a sniper trying to accomodate hsi cover to his shot, wincing from stray bullets, aiming at a moving target in real world terrain, would have a hell of a shot if he manged to hit.

[Berlichtingen]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>I've gotten to fire a mauser 98k , at a nice 8X6 in coleman fuel can (empty) at the 250 mark, and it took 2 open sighted shots to hit the thing, and the second shot was an outside glance, not in the center.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I have fired an M1, K98 and Enfield on the Marine Rifle Range at KMCAS. The 500m target is the size of a man kneeling. After a three shots to set the sights, it was easy enough to hit the target. Now, hitting that target while it is moving, or while the firer is stressed (like being under fire) would be next to impossible. However, that is not the situation from which snipers take their shots. They fire from hiding at stationary targets... much like the range.