Ricky Posted August 6, 2000 Share Posted August 6, 2000 Although not specifically CM related, I was thinking while watching the movie Saving Private Ryan. If the Americans could go back in time to June 1944 with today's military technology, is it possible they could of made that same landing on Omaha beach with little or no casualties, as opposed to what really happened. Remember, I'm talking about this one battle alone, not the whole war. Personally speaking, I think they would of used satellites to pinpoint enemy strongholds (bunkers, barracks, etc) then sent in wave after wave of cruise missles, followed by a air attacks with LGB's (laser guided bombs). After a few days I think they would of done a massive amphibious assault with Harriers and Helicopters supporting the landing. Just a interesting "what if"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Formerly Babra Posted August 6, 2000 Share Posted August 6, 2000 The only casualty would be the truth.... ------------------ It's a mother-beautiful bridge and it's gonna be THERE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted August 6, 2000 Share Posted August 6, 2000 LOL. If they'd simply used LVTs like the advisors with Pacific War experience had urged them to then they could have made the landings at Omaha using WW2 technology at far lesser cost. And, I don't think you need all this LGB crap... All they'd need to do is FAE and daisy-chain the bluffs and then walk the infantry in to count the bodies. FAEs and Daisychains were designed to wipe out all human life in discrete, bunkered, areas like the bluffs and would have worked wonderfully. Technology is it's own worst curse ( plus it robs society of the acceptance that casualties are inevitable). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mortis Posted August 6, 2000 Share Posted August 6, 2000 Imagine what a M1 Abrams could do to a Tiger. Or a F-16 to a BF-109. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Zulu1 Posted August 6, 2000 Share Posted August 6, 2000 Why not the New Jersey (circa 2000) against the Spanish Armada. Wow, Harpoons and 16" guns against galleons. What would be the point of even thinking about it? It didn't happen and it would be no fun to simulate. Its like matching Napoleons troops against a modern infantry brigade. It would be a one sided slaughter. In CM you can put 10 King Tigers against 20 Sherman 75's and you quickly end up with 20 dead Shermans. With equally balanced forces you have a challenge. Thats where CM scenarios are interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Von Brizee Posted August 6, 2000 Share Posted August 6, 2000 But, going back in time to do that with those modern weapons would wipe out the 3rd Reich so quickly that they wouldn't have time to develop some of the superweapons of their own that LED to the development of the weapons we would be using on them. Thus, a paradox... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patboivin Posted August 6, 2000 Share Posted August 6, 2000 Well, of course if one side gets to use modern weapons then the other would have to use them too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest machineman Posted August 6, 2000 Share Posted August 6, 2000 As far as 'what if' scenarios, I've always wondered what would have happened if the Germans would have developed a guided land based 'ship killer' rocket, using their glider bomb technology (which did sink an Italian battleship). Mounted on trucks like V2's they would have been hard to spot and quick to deploy. From what I understand Naval gunfire was what saved the American bacon at Omaha, and throughout the early part of the Normandy battles, whenever the panzers got too close to the sea the ships big guns rocked their world. A few burning battleships and things may have gone a lot differently for the Allies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mace Posted August 7, 2000 Share Posted August 7, 2000 There was a movie released in the early 80s about one of the USN Carriers going back in time just prior to the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour. Needless to say, the Time warp reappeared and prevented them from intervening! Cant remember the title, 'cause I'm growing old, and my memories fading! Mace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest *Captain Foobar* Posted August 7, 2000 Share Posted August 7, 2000 Ok then , how about a Mini-Mike Ditka, with infrared goggles, and a TOW equipped Humvee vs. the 1944 Panzer Lehr. I say Mike Ditka 162, Lehr 0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miyamoto Musashi Posted August 7, 2000 Share Posted August 7, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by *Captain Foobar*: Ok then , how about a Mini-Mike Ditka, with infrared goggles, and a TOW equipped Humvee vs. the 1944 Panzer Lehr. I say Mike Ditka 162, Lehr 0.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> LOL... yeah, and that storm that wiped out the Chinese fleet for the Japanese? They called it kamikaze, which some say means "divine wind." Actually it's Japanese for "Hurricane Ditka." he he Oh, and the time-warping aircraft carrier movie starring Kirk Douglas? "The Final Countdown"... though it was in no way affiliated with the like-named Europe song. ------------------ In fighting and in everyday life you should be determined though calm. Meet the situation without tenseness yet not recklessly, your spirit settled yet unbiased. An elevated spirit is weak and a low spirit is weak. Do not let the enemy see your spirit. -- M.M. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted August 7, 2000 Share Posted August 7, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Zulu1: Why not the New Jersey (circa 2000) against the Spanish Armada. Wow, Harpoons and 16" guns against galleons.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> For the same cost or less you could put up an entire fleet of PT boats armed with twin .50s and 40mm Bofors. They could sink the entire Armada in about half the time it would take to load the guns on a battleship. Bigger is not always better. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted August 7, 2000 Share Posted August 7, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fionn: FAEs and Daisychains...<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You wouldn't perchance mean Daisy Cutters? Very large bombs dropped by parachute from the backs of C-130s in Viet Nam to clear LZs in the jungle? Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olle Petersson Posted August 7, 2000 Share Posted August 7, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mortis: ... Or a F-16 to a BF-109.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> More like AMRAAM vs BF-109 ... In a dogfight the outcome would be pretty random, since the BF-109 has superior turning radius and slow flying characteristics, and enough firepower to blow up the F-16. Cheers Olle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chupacabra Posted August 7, 2000 Share Posted August 7, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Olle Petersson: More like AMRAAM vs BF-109 ... In a dogfight the outcome would be pretty random, since the BF-109 has superior turning radius and slow flying characteristics, and enough firepower to blow up the F-16. Cheers Olle<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> In WW2-era dogfights, speed was life. Which is why lighter, more maneuverable, but slow Japanese planes got knocked out of the sky like gnats once the American pilots figured out that they shouldn't try to turn with them. The Me-262 wallowed around like a quadraplegic sow compared to planes like the Mustang or Thunderbolt, but it was nearly 100 mph faster than anything else in the sky, which made it dangerous. Basically, this is all a long-winded way of saying that having a tight turning radius is nice, but faster will win almost every time. Of course, guided missiles have leveled the playing field a bit... ------------------ Soy super bien, soy super super bien, soy bien bien super bien bien bien super super. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hakko Ichiu Posted August 7, 2000 Share Posted August 7, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by *Captain Foobar*: Ok then , how about a Mini-Mike Ditka, with infrared goggles, and a TOW equipped Humvee vs. the 1944 Panzer Lehr. I say Mike Ditka 162, Lehr 0.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> But what if we gave the Panzer Lehr Michael Jordan?? ------------------ Ethan ----------- Das also war des Pudels Kern! -- Goethe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rwcanuck Posted August 7, 2000 Share Posted August 7, 2000 In the movie "The Final Countdown" with Kirk Douglas as the commander of a modern Aircraft Carrier which gets caught in a time warp and finds itself now in Dec. 1941 and he has to make a tough decision whether to interfere with the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbour or not. F16s against Japanese Zeros and Kates would certainly change the course of history. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jeff Heidman Posted August 7, 2000 Share Posted August 7, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Hakko Ichiu: But what if we gave the Panzer Lehr Michael Jordan?? <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Would Jordan get to wear basketball shoes? Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Callmeyer Posted August 7, 2000 Share Posted August 7, 2000 If you like this theme you'd love the novel, The Guns of the South. In that book some modern day sesessionists get ahold of a time machine and send AK47s, Flack Jackets and 50 cal Brownings to R. E. Lee and company. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IntelWeenie Posted August 7, 2000 Share Posted August 7, 2000 I think it's just as interesting to think about what HASN'T changed since WWII. Up until 10-15 yrs ago, the US still fielded the same helmet, several small arms (M1911, .50 cal MG, etc.), nearly identical personal accoutrements (pup tent, mess kit, web gear, dog tags) among many other things. On the infantry side especially, things aren't so different from what they once were. Hmmm, MP44s vs. M16s.... Granted, things have really changed in the last few years, but its amazing how long some things lasted! (and we still use the Ma Duece! ) ------------------ "Belly to belly and everything's better" - Russian proverb Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hakko Ichiu Posted August 7, 2000 Share Posted August 7, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Jeff Heidman: Would Jordan get to wear basketball shoes? Jeff <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I think he'd have to wear leg irons just to make it fair. ------------------ Ethan ----------- Das also war des Pudels Kern! -- Goethe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tobe Posted August 7, 2000 Share Posted August 7, 2000 Ok, how about a squad of Miny Ditkas versus the entire German Army? I'd have to say complete Ditka victory in just 2 days. **hollld on, just having another heart attack** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Minnesota Joe Posted August 7, 2000 Share Posted August 7, 2000 Hey whats that movie with that one guy from Jaws? Roy Schneider i think. Well theres this movie he's in about the U.S.S. Nimitz going back in time to when Pearl Harbor was attacked. You get to see Tomcats fight Zeros. But the ending is kinda a letdown if youre lookin forward to a large dogfight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirmess1 Posted August 7, 2000 Share Posted August 7, 2000 I think that Movie is called CountDown. It stars Kirk Douglas and some other people. THe Nitmiz was in pearl Harbor before that storm sucked the Carrier back woth out its supports ships. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sirmess1 Posted August 7, 2000 Share Posted August 7, 2000 Really not sure of the title, I am probably wrong, but I know what you are talking about.No real fighting in the movie, some F-14 s splash some Zero and some fighting in on the ship but thats it. The Fleet of fighter planes that was going to fight the japanese invasion force on Pearl Harbor was called back because the time warp came back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts