Examples Of Excellent CM AI behaviour please.

[Guest Headcount]

Can anyone give me a few concrete examples they have witnessed of the excellent CM AI in action.

I am in the process of writing a review and am finding it difficult to communicate just how groundbreaking the games 'fuzzy logic' AI

is.

Thanks a lot.

Headcount

[IntelWeenie]

In the process of making an article on AT ambushes, I played a battle where the AI was attacking down a road. The vehicles all started evenly spaced, but the AI did a very good job of moving up the road using bounding overwatch.

For more info and screenshots see my AAR at: http://www.combat-mission.com/

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Canada: Where men were men, unless they were horses.

-Dudley Do-right

[Juardis]

I had a Sherman M4A3(76)W plinking away at a Stug III when a Panther crests a hill and starts drawing a bead on my sherm. I had a 60 mm mortar crew in some woods down below the Sherman but it was out of sight and out of high explosives. He did have some smoke though. He was just sort of watching all the action not really participating and the Germans aren't paying him any attention either (i.e., he's not drawing fire). Next thing I know, he's dropping smoke all around the Panther to prevent it from killing the Sherman. The turn ends with my Sherman still living, the Stug III dead, and the Panther shielded by smoke. Outstanding!

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Jeff Abbott

[This message has been edited by Juardis (edited 09-27-2000).]

[109 Gustav]

I had a panther, and I was hunting a sherm 500m away, with a clear los, except for one clump of trees the sherm was hiding behind. The sherm would pop out from behind the trees, shoot at my panther, and duck back. This happened 5-6 times. Because my crew had taken a casualty earlier, I was buttoned up, and my tankers were too slow to react before the sherm hid again. I finally 'shrecked him.

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Well my skiff's a twenty dollar boat

And I hope to God she stays afloat

But if somehow my skiff goes down,

I'll freeze to death before I drown, and pray my body will be found.

-Alaska salmon fishermen's motto

[CrapGame]

I have played a scenario where the AI was attacking a 75mm pillbox of mine, and it proceeded to attack with multiple armored vehicles from multiple angles that it proceeded to move laterally across the field of vision of my pillbox, which caused the AT gun to continually skip from target to target without sticking on one long enough to fire. Frustrating as hell as it was to me, I must give compliments to AI on that one.

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CrapGame

[aka_tom_w]

The AI is a Pleasure to play against

it does not always do the same thing twice

it loves to use smoke JUST when you don't want it.

It defends extremely well and it can attack from all angles using all the the tactics appropriate to that era of combat.

it is very competant and a good adversary to learn how to play cm against.

it DOES NOT cheat (ever) and really good players can usually beat it

just my thoughts

-tom w

[This message has been edited by aka_tom_w (edited 09-26-2000).]

[Iconoclast]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Headcount:

Can anyone give me a few concrete examples they have witnessed of the excellent CM AI in action.

I am in the process of writing a review and am finding it difficult to communicate just how groundbreaking the games 'fuzzy logic' AI

is.

Thanks a lot.

Headcount<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'll cite two examples from an operation that will remain nameless so as not to make this a Spoiler thread.

I was running some Tigers down a road and generally chewing up the AI's Commonwealth forces. I didn't have any non-armored units to guard my flanks, and thus had to rely on killing everything in LOS before moving on. As I did I caught intermittent glimpses of Allied MMG carriers off to my flank, but assumed they were merely fleeing near-certain destruction. Eventually I ran into enough opposition that I decided to pull back. I was reversing my lead Tiger so as to keep it facing the opposing armor, when WHAM! it brews up from a rear hit. Seems those "harmless" carriers had actually been towing 6 pounder AT guns, which the AI deployed BEHIND my advancing line.

Later in that same scenario, I was merrily toasting British tanks elsewhere with another pair of Tigers. After losing a half dozen vehicles, the AI seemed to lose heart and stop trying to force my position... then, a tank broke through what had seemed a solid line of bocage (obviously it had a gap in it), and poured fire onto my flank at the same time that all of the remaining British tanks rumbled back into view and joined the fray from my front.

As I said, these two examples occurred in the same scenario. As I tend to whip the AI handily, I felt mighty humbled...

Jim

[This message has been edited by Iconoclast (edited 09-26-2000).]

[Abbott]

A good example of the AI can be found playing the "Wiltz" scenario as the Germans. The AI has always defended well in this one for me.

[Splinty]

Earlier this morning I was playing a scenario

that involved a German company sized combined arms element ambushing a vastly superior American force;my guys were being overwhelmed by Shermans(basically I was getting my a#$ kicked! ),when all of a sudden one of my Pionner squads without any direction from me attacked a M8 Greyhound with satchel charges!Man, it was amazing! Even though my valiant boys took 6 casualties they pressed the attack and took out they offending M8 and prevented a breakthrough.(at least for a little while)I must have watched that one 10 times because it was just so cool!

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Nicht Schiessen!!

[Guest aaronb]

Scenario with a town on the german right flank, woods on the left. The AI formed a heavy point towards the town, so I left my mobile assets there.

At the last minute, and under fire from artillery, the _entire_ attacking force shifted to my left flank, rolled up a weak woods defence, and swept in to town from the left, instead of the front (where I had placed all of my ambushes).

Brilliant. I usually win against the AI - this time it had the look of a savvy human player.

[Steve Clark]

With most of the examples focusing on tanks, I can provide a simplistic example with infantry. The Germans had 5 infantry units around a bunker and a few barbed wires, purely in defense mode awaiting my attacks. There was open ground in front of the bunker and woods/tall pines along the southern and western edge where I had advancing platoons. One platoon was covering the western woods and the other, the souther woods. When I approached the edges and started targeting the German infantries, 2 started to move to the western woods, not to find a better defensive position, but to flank my platoon since I had a line facing the open ground. The other German infantry found a gap between my two platoon and ran towards it, thus causing me to refocus firings from the bunker and the 2 remaining infantries, to meet the more immediate threats. I had never experienced a pre-emptive offense in a wargame before, esp. when the enemy had been in an obvious defensive position.

[Mr. Clark]

I don't have any AI moments to add, but I just wanted to state here how Impressed I am that the AI DOES NOT CHEAT!

I always get a little nauseated (SPELL CHECKER!!) when finding out how a recently purchased game's AI is cheating against me to make things "fair". It may make it "fair" in one sense (we are smarter than AI), but it still does not "feel" right.

Anyhoo, Thumbs Up for that there addition to this sweet game.

[Croaker]

Once when I was playing as the defensive Americans in Parker's Crossroads, there is a wide open 700 meter or so approach from one of the German starting locations. I fully expected the AI to attack across that open ground (which I had well covered), but no, it actually used the forest to skirt around to my right flank and launch an overwhelming attack across a mere hundred meters all the while using well placed arty and smoke to supress my defenders. I was stunned - A total loss.

[Guest MikeToth]

I was playing as Allies (scenario slips my mind right now) with a few Shermans against

some SS types armed with 'Fausts... anywho, the guy with the faust was hiding in a bldg and targeted a Sherman rolling rather close by, needless to say he popped that Jumbo right where it hurts, (I saw it coming but alas too late) anyway, the tanker crew boys bail out, then run right into the house where the SS guy with the Panzerfaust was hiding, they both pull out there 45's and pop this poor Waffen slob right between the eyes!!!.... talk about revenge!!!!>....

then as all this is happening a squad of his comrades come thru the back door and machine gun the sh*t out of my tank crew!!!.. what brave lads they were.... this is simply an awesome AI... the best I have ever seen..

Mike

Cleveland Ohio USA

[Bullethead]

If the AI infantry has to advance any distance before launching an assault, it almost always has its grunts wait on the MGs and other slow support weapons to get in position before launching the attack. How often have you seen that before in other games? And it is a demon for pulling well-orchestrated single envelopments and counterattacking out of nowhere. It coordinates its grunts with its tanks rather well, too. All in all, I find the AI a very good and often curse its ability .

That said, there are limits to its ability. The AI appears to be designed around having room to maneuver. It has trouble adjusting to attacking across complex, restricted maps, often doing banzai charges. It also seems to dislike leaving FOs behind on dominating terrain and prefers to have them up with the riflemen, where their LOS is limited and where I kill many of them. And in so doing, it doesn't prepfire my likely hiding places enough.

But I think its greatest weakness is that it doesn't recognize on-going arty FFE as an obstacle to maneuver. If you attack it on a flank and shield your move with a curtain barrage across likely avenues of enemy redeployment from other parts of the map, you can often inflict severe casualties on AI units trying to reinforce the threatened sector. At the time, you often won't see this happening, but the lack of the expected counterattacks and the endgame map view will show you the damage done.

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-Bullethead

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[19 Echo]

I was playing one scenario where I had some tanks, tank destroyers and howitzers against a whole lot of panzers. The Panzers were coming down this road, basically single file, diagonally in front of me. I moved some tanks along a concealed road to get flank shots on these guys. Well, two things happened. First, the main line of Panzers, after recieving some shots from my more static positions, suddenly all pulled back from the road. They seemed to be milling around, but I finally figured out that they had pulled back into a low area, out of sight, in order to organize for a deliberate assualt from a slightly different axis. They also waited for their infantry to get into position. The second thing that happened is that my flankers got flanked. There was another group of Germans that I hadn't anticipated. It was a two-pronged attack, and it caught me flat-footed, and overwhelmed my troops.

-- Mike Zeares

[Jochen Schmidt]

A DYO-Secenario!

House to House Fighting. American Atack (Infanterie & Sherman 105 Tanks).

A German HMG 42 in the second level of a Cityhouse, guarded by an infantry-squad in the 1st level. Sherman (the first) drives to the next corner to kill the HMG. My squad in the 1st level misses with their panzerfaust. Sherman is blasting them of the house. After that the sherman drives dirctly in front of the building, raises his gun to the highest possible angle and pounds a 105mm shell in the second floor to my HMG. Distanc - perhaps - 5 m.

This example should show, that the AI is not only amaizing by outflanking etc. It is nearly perfect in operational situations.

I love this game!

Greetings from Germany

Jochen

[Triggerhappy]

On an operation (don't remember the name) I played the Germans on defens vs. an American assault. I only had a handful of AT guns, two 88's and a Pz IV H, plus some 20mm AAs, Infantry and some Panzerschrecks. There was one dirt road crossing the whole map, with most of the other areas covered with bocage and trees. So I hid nearly all of my troops to the left and to the right of the dirt road in what seemed to be a perfect ambush position.

Then the Americans came. My only arty spotter was positioned to have a clear view of the main road. In the first turn, I counted about 10 Shermans and at least 10 halftracks coming down the road. Everything seemed to be perfect for the ambush I had planed. I plotted an artillery strike in front of my defense lines and waited for turn two.

In turn two, the first Sherman, a Jumbo, passed my defense lines and was immediately taken out by a Panzerschreck from the side. In only about a second all the other tanks left the road to the left.

To make it short, the armored vehicles proceeded far to the left of my defense lines to outflank me while the American infantry made a pretty successfull frontal assault on my AT guns and support teams. I had a pretty hard time fighting off the attack with my Mark IV as the only "mobile defense". It was simply amazing how well the AI outmaneuvered my positions.

Although I had heavy losses I won that scenario and in the end managed to win the whole operation.

Nonetheless there was something very strange happening in the last scenario of the campaign: I had set up my forces and played a few turns when suddenly an arty strike took out an 88 which I had forgotten to set up - stupid me. So I reloaded the scenario and lined that Flak gun up with my other forces. It took a few turns and again an artillery strike knocked out the same gun. What was this? I was sure the Americans couldn't have spotted the 88 because they were still pretty far away. Were there any paratroopers coming from the rear? Maybe. I tried again, this time positioning the 88 gun in the very left corner of the map.

Guess what - it got pounded again. I tried several positions for that gun but it wouldn't help. Each time I played the scenario the gun was destroyed by artillery fire, everytime in the same turn.

Anybody got an oppinion on that one? I'm pretty sure that there were no enemy forces nearby...

[Von Fauster]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bullethead:

And it is a demon for pulling well-orchestrated single envelopments and counterattacking out of nowhere. It coordinates its grunts with its tanks rather well, too. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

That pretty much summarizes my recent AI Wonder Experience: Playing a QB with the primary victory flag on the left flank, and one smaller objective in the center of a village in the middle of the map. I had a fairly strong (2 Tiger, 2 half-tracks, truck and AT gun + Infantry) force, so I divided it up into two "task forces": (1) to move straight up toward the secondary victory location and (2) to sweep the left flank (securing the Primary) then coming to aide the the 1st TF. My reasoning was that the Allied force would surely come through the village(computer AI's like buildings, right?) then (if they actually managed to get through my (1)Task Force)move toward the larger Primary Objective, and run smack into my (2) Task Force. Fine.

And I was almost right.

The AI did in fact push toward the (1)TF holding the secondary objective in the village. In fact, it made a real strong push. I figured it had fired both barrels, so I quickly rolled my (2)TF toward the village in a sort of pincer move.

What I noticed, but failed to recognize, was that the AI had actually pulled back when it couldn't take the village and swept wide around my left flank. In short, it flanked my flank- and hard. I've lost both Tigers (to M5's no less. Hit a "weak spot" in the frontal turret armor both times. That hurt. I was leaning a little heavy on my Tigers) and am currently falling back in an effort to regroup around the Primary objective. Frankly, its not looking good.

The AI in this game is a delight and has earned by (grudging) respect.

Good Hunting!

[Banshee]

Recent QB (1000 point Attack), I was attacking an Amis force in Hilly and somewhat dense terrain. The VL's were scattered across the map with most of them being minor VL's with 1 major VL on the top of a wide hill covered in trees on its front.

Me moving into attack the Major VL with a supporting attack on the farthest flank away from my main attack. I let my supporting attack move forward first, trying to push and get the minor VL in the hopes that the AI would shift forces or counterattack, thus letting my main force have a much easier time in the attack. My supporting force hits about a platoon of troops and works to dig them out as I launch my main attack. The supporting attack succeeds in clearing out the minor VL and taking it.. and my main force (still quite a distance from the Major VL) hits a platoon and clears them out from heavy brush on the hillside. I decided then to shift the platoon in the van to face the right and another to face the left to cover my main breakthrough point and pass my unhurt forces through to continue the attack. The AI (brilliantly I thought) counterattacks at the base of penetration (the place of most danger to the defense, even though the far VL was the under the most pressure)trying to seal off the breakthrough. If I took the AI for granted and didnt place my forces as I did I would have been soundly defeated. As it was it turned into a terrific fight with me marvelling at the AI's abilities the whole time.

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Veni, vidi, panzerschrecki