19 Echo

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Spook: ...I just presume that SS camo pants were indeed made but tended to be uncommon, especially toward war's end.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> If the German army was anything like the U.S. Army in Vietnam, there were probably a lot of well-camoflaged supply sergeants running around. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>...I am recently thinking of revising this, though, to provide a stock-gray undershirt for the neck region where the uniform coat is opened up.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> That sounds good. Their undershirts were gray anyway, weren't they? -- Mike Zeares

I was playing one scenario where I had some tanks, tank destroyers and howitzers against a whole lot of panzers. The Panzers were coming down this road, basically single file, diagonally in front of me. I moved some tanks along a concealed road to get flank shots on these guys. Well, two things happened. First, the main line of Panzers, after recieving some shots from my more static positions, suddenly all pulled back from the road. They seemed to be milling around, but I finally figured out that they had pulled back into a low area, out of sight, in order to organize for a deliberate assualt from a slightly different axis. They also waited for their infantry to get into position. The second thing that happened is that my flankers got flanked. There was another group of Germans that I hadn't anticipated. It was a two-pronged attack, and it caught me flat-footed, and overwhelmed my troops. -- Mike Zeares

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Slapdragon: Oh the humanity!!!! Or perhaps humaniti? For a free Tiger Tank, what game spelled Humanity Humaniti? Be specific. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> "Traveller," the sci-fi rpg from Game Designer's Workshop. I have all 5 versions, including the G.U.R.P.S. one. Where do I go to pick up my Tiger Tank? -- Mike Zeares, who misses his weekly Traveller sessions.

One thing I noticed about the Waffen feldgrau uniforms is that they have the eagle on both sleeves, and no cuff titles. Color is about right, I think. I believe the camo patterns are pretty historical (the Germans had a huge variety of camo patterns), though not necessarily to the period depicted by CMBO. The feldgrau uniform was the basic uniform, and they would have worn a reversible camo smock over it. You see a lot of photos of SS troops in camo smocks and helmet covers with fg pants. I know they had full camo uniforms for Panzer troops (someone needs to do that mod), but I'm not sure about BDU-style uniforms for infantry. I'm tempted to assume that, since CM includes camo pants for SS troops, they must have existed (i.e. BTS must have researched it), but I've never seen them in books and such. The only mod I use is the fg Heer uniform, which I just like a lot more than the gray one, even if BTS' research found that the German uniforms of the period tended to be more gray. I might try the green SS camo (which I assume is an eastern front camo). And I love the winter jumpsuit mod, which is the one I was waiting for. I tend to prefer to use historical mods, but some of the fanciful ones are pretty cool (whoever came up with that leaf pattern Konigstiger needs to share some of what he was smoking ) -- Mike Zeares

Spoilers below for Chambois..... Chambois was one of the first scenarios I played. Playing as the Poles, I did a lousy job of deploying my tanks. However, I caught the Germans all bunched up, and turned it into a real Hexenkessel. My tanks managed to get in some licks before getting knocked out, and I got an AT gun and some infantry into a good blocking position to deny the exit (and discovered in the process that moving "Fast" keeps HT's alive longer). Still, I lost all of my tanks. There was one Panther that I just couldn't kill. It played cat-and-mouse with me. I swear the thing was reading my mind. Every time I would plan out a flanking movement with my few remaining tanks, it would anticipate this and have its front towards my flanker. "Clunk" goes another Ronson. I tried sneaking 'zooks through the woods -- it detected and destroyed them. All this while buttoned. After it took out my last tank, it started counter-attacking one of my infantry platoons, which broke and ran. I felt like joining them. Mercifully, the scenario time ran out. It said I'd won a major victory. Looking over my burning tanks and shattered troops, it didn't feel like one. I'm scared to try this as the Germans. I've played a lot of the scenarios and gobs of QB's, but this one has really stuck with me. I've never quite recovered from the feeling of moral failure at getting so many of my guys killed through my own blunders. There's not many games that can do that to you. Keep it coming. -- Mike Zeares

Now that's more like it. -- Mike Zeares

One thing about the round-out brigades. The Army's official history of Desert Storm pointed out that the real problem with this concept wasn't their readiness (there was ample time to get them up to speed), but rather the problem of activation. The divisions of Central Command, namely 1st CD and 24th ID, needed their round-out brigades when they deployed in Sept. However, for political reasons, Pres. Bush didn't activate the Guard until October (I think. Oct. 8 sticks in my mind, but I can't really remember the date). This forced the active divisions to scrounge around for active brigades to round them out (the 197th for 24th ID, while 1st Cav ended up a two-brigade division, although it had part of the 2nd AD attached to it for awhile). This affiliation between the regular Army and NG has been in place for awhile. The regular division is supposed to sort of "mentor" the NG unit, if I understand it correctly. Then there's the 49th AD, which I think is about the only full division left in the Guard. We were overseen directly by 5th Army (in 92; this might have changed). Another thing that the Army came up with was farming out regular officers to the Guard units (which has a shortage of officers). They take a state comission, but retain their regular Army rank and time-in-grade and everything, just like during the Civil War. The Guard is probably finished as a viable combat force. It's hard for units to get anywhere near full, partly because of an enormous anti-reserve/guard backlash since Desert Storm (I had a number of job interviews end abruptly when I mentioned the word "Guard"). -- Mike Zeares (this thread will get locked, which is just as well. I could go on for days about the Guard)

That's easy. When one of your troops gets hit, cut yourself. Then you'll see blood. -- Mike Zeares

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by jshandorf: Most AT teams in CM have a pretty good survivability. I recall one AT team firing an errant shot at one of the THREE Panzer IVs I pulled up into a a ridge line. The AT-team was proabably about 80 meters out and ALL THREE Panzer IVs opened up on the AT-team with MGs and, thankfully, thier Main Guns. The team not only survived they managed to get a couple more shots off. Luckily all misses.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I've seen that too. I've also seen AT teams and guns wiped out in one shot. It tends to balance out in the long run. I like your story about yelling at the monitor. I was on the other side of a similar situation. Tried to sneak a Schreck team around the flank of a Sherman. Sherman spotted them at 102 meters and fired coax. The Schreck team fired a few shots, which missed badly. The Sherman just kept firing an occasional burst of coax. Finally my Schreck scored a hit (lower hull, no damage). The tank's next shot was with the main gun. I just had to laugh. Granted, they were at the extreme edge of the Schreck's range, but they were lucky that hit didn't do more damage. If that were a real crew, I bet they'd have used HE against anything resembling an AT team for the rest of the war. Anyway, back to the original topic, I'd say I've seen about half and half, tanks engaging guns with coax or the main gun. I've seen coax successfully suppress a gun crew, but sometimes it backfires, as when a "light gun" turns out to be a 17-pounder with steel-nerved crew. -- Mike Zeares

The 2 MDMP's are separate from all the other 3rd party mods. One problem is that there are so many nice Tiger mods now, and only room for one. My favorites so far are the beautiful Hi-res tanks in the MDMP's (especially the Tigers), the Feldgrau German uniforms, and Stephan's winter Panther A. High on my wishlist are more plain whitewashed vehicles and camo Panzer uniforms. -- Mike Zeares

This was so damn funny I had to share it. I put together a winter QB to check out the winter vehicle mods I just installed (gorgeous, all of them). So I had a Panther A and a Hetzer hunting side by side. I had FOW off ('cause I wanted to look at the winterized HT's), so I knew that there was a HT mortar carrier. Suddenly, it started charging right at the Hetzer. The Hetzer killed one crewman with its mg, but the damn thing kept coming. Meanwhile the Panther, which was a little ahead of the Hetzer, was trying to traverse its turret around. The HT actually collided with the Hetzer, which pushed it a little, then stopped. At that point the HT started backing up, but the Panther finally had it lined up and fired at a range of about 10 meters. The resulting explosion was impressive, to say the least. I don't know what that HT driver was thinking. -- Mike Zeares

So many nice Tigers, and only room for one at a time. It's downright tragic. -- Mike Zeares [This message has been edited by 19 Echo (edited 09-05-2000).]

I have seen a few photos of allied AFV's where it appeared that the whitewash had been applied in a camo pattern. But most photos show just solid white. Most German vehicles were probably done the same way. I love the Panther A winter mod that has the regular camo showing through the whitewash. And the "dirty Tiger" in the new Mad Mod pack. -- Mike Zeares

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Mark IV: The only drawback to the Garand was that the soldier tended to empty his clip pretty damn fast. The high recoil hindered rapid fire accuracy, somewhat.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> High recoil? My grandfather said he loved the Garand because of its low recoil. He told a story about a time he was demonstrating a Lee-Enfield to his platoon, and when he fired it he found himself on the ground. Said he thought he'd dislocated his shoulder at first. He was very happy when they were issued Garands. Since I've never fired one, I wouldn't know. But I've never heard that the Garand had high recoil. -- Mike Zeares

As for that battered M1A1, I read that story in Clancy's "Armored Cav" (source of much 'Super M1' propoganda). I no longer have the book, but I thought he wrote that HEAT rounds were used, none of which could penetrate the turret (the tank was stuck so deep that it was essentially hull down). They finally penetrated the rear turret, which only blew off the panels. After a while another (or a couple, I don't remember) M88 recovery vehicle showed up and they were able to tow the tank out after all. Note that using HEAT makes sense, if you want the thing to blow up and burn. Note also that the proper way to destroy a tank is with thermite grenades, which makes me wonder about this story. I suppose it's possible that nobody had thermites. Or that they decided shooting it would be more fun. -- Mike Zeares

CommaderC: The Gulf War is practically irrelevant to Steel Beasts. The Iraqis were using export T-72's and firing APFSDS with steel penetrators. Steel Beasts models top of the line Russian equipment firing DU penetrators. As for ATGMS, in the demo the M1A1's armor values were incorrect, but this has been corrected in the full version. I took many frontal hits from ATGMS in Instant Action, which caused some system damage, but it was a Sabot that finally killed me. To reiterate the first point: the Gulf War teaches nothing about the survivability of the M1A1 vs. top Russian equipment. It also teaches nothing about the survivability of the T-80 and T-90 vs. the M1A1. Oh, you mentioned the Fright Night battle. I have a book about the 1st AD that goes into detail on that battle. Two M1A1's were knocked out. One was hit at the turret ring, causing extensive damage to the turret floor and lower hull from fragmentation, but the crew all survivied, with some injuries. The other was hit first in the engine, then in the ammo storage, at which point the crew decided they had an elsewhere to be. Both of these tanks might have been repairable. -- Mike Zeares

Me too! Me too! I was hoping someone would do an op like this. mzeares@yahoo.com -- Mike Zeares

Being methodical definitely helps. Sometimes I like to draw a quick sketch map, and note the locations of some of my important guys (FO's, HQ's) on it. I also use this to help plan my assault/defense. I don't have grease pencils and overlays yet, but I'm working on it. It can be annoying to cycle through a battalion's worth of units in the setup phase to find the FO's. But once I find them, I can usually keep track of them mentally. On the few occasions when I do lose track of someone (usually a bazooka or some other small team), I just chalk it up to FOW. There's always some poor schmuck who never gets the word. -- Mike Zeares

A good game for music is "West Front." There are four German songs on the cd, including "Erika," which is what the German soldiers were singing as they marched through Warsaw in "Shindler's List." The original music for the game is pretty good too. Sounds inspired by "Patton." I'd love to import some of it into CM, just for fun. -- Mike Zeares

Back to the Tiger... WOW! Looks like a Tamiya Tiger I put together once. I followed a suggestion I read somewhere and poured dirt over it to give it a dusty appearance (easier than dry-brushing). The road wheels are fantastic, and I love the way the exhaust pipe covers look dented. Nice shadows on the tow cable. I like the "Darth Vader" grey look too, historical accuracy be damned. -- Mike Zeares

The tracks on that Sherman in the first pic are almost perfect. Tank tracks come painted from the factory, but the paint wears off quickly and they can get pretty rusty. The end connectors get rusty too. I've seen tracks on real tanks that were solid rust except for the pads. That Churchill may be the best yet. The side has a real 3-D look to it (due to good shading). The only overall suggestion I'd make would be to make the lower hull sides (inside the tracks) a little darker. They wouldn't often get direct light. I just noticed the shading on the lower tranny housing on that foliage Sherman. Excellent, just excellent. -- Mike Zeares

Hey BTS, hire this guy! -- Mike Zeares

Speaking of Charles MacDonald, here's a quote from A Time For Trumpets: "The German tanks became even more vulnerable under the pounding of the 2d Division's four artillery battalions reinforced by three corps battalions, for even when that fire failed to knock out a tank, it might break a track or a sprocket wheel...."(p. 398) MacDonald relates many instances where German tanks were turned back by artillery fire (at one point there were 348 guns backing up the Elsenborn Ridge defenses, from the 105mm howitzers of the regimental Cannon Companies to 8-inch howitzers of corps artillery), and states that "the artillery turned out to be the most effective antitank weapon of all." -- Mike Zeares

Just thought I'd comment.... Two patches now, each covering a wide variety of issues, almost all of which are related to gameplay. Thus showing the advantage of doing it right the first time. Instead of having to patch the game just to get it to run without crashing (like so many on the market), BTS can spend their time fine-tuning it. The game has been absolutely stable for me, and my 8 mb Guillemot Phoenix2 runs all the graphics bells and whistles flawlessly (if a little slow). Way to go, BTS! -- Mike Zeares

If I understand the way the game works, winter camo is an all or nothing deal. Either all the tanks of a particular type have it, or none of them will. The game can't randomly choose tanks to apply the winter camo to. Same with the standard German camo. As for spotting, painted camo isn't nearly as effective as sticking foliage all over (to break up the outline), but it can help. The German camo is particularly effective in autumn. There are also many photos of German tanks with tree branches stuck everywhere, but I can't imagine a way for CM to model this. Again, it would be all or nothing, as with the Rhinos on Allied tanks. -- Mike Zeares