*IX*Angela Deth Posted August 4, 2000 Share Posted August 4, 2000 Yup, we're here, we just don't always tend to go around waving banners proclaiming it . I've been doing air combat sims and various strategy and wargames online since the early 80's. Now I'm hooked on CM. OK Shrapnel - that's two. (Glad to see I'm not the only woman posting here.) *IX*Angela Deth [This message has been edited by *IX*Angela Deth (edited 08-03-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lorak Posted August 4, 2000 Share Posted August 4, 2000 Not to mention needing to thank Angela for her great Mod. Lorak ------------------ "someone you trust is one of us"..........the illuminati * http://clubs.yahoo.com/clubs/combatmissionclub Lorak's FTX for CM <--Proud member of the Combat Mission Webring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*IX*Angela Deth Posted August 4, 2000 Share Posted August 4, 2000 You're quite welcome. And my thanks to Madmatt for putting my flags and textures up on CMHQ and for his kind words. Also thanks to Greg M. for pointing out that I neglected to include the texture for the ford (stream-crossing) in my water tileset. I've forwarded it to Madmatt for posting but if it doesn't get posted before he heads off to Deutschland (my place of birth by the way) anyone who wants the texture can feel free to e-mail me and I'll forward a copy to them (the zip file is about 26k). *IX*Angela Deth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mace Posted August 4, 2000 Share Posted August 4, 2000 Do Cross-dressers count? If so, a fine opportunity for Muzzlehead and I to stand up and be counted! Mace (in nice pink frock)! BTW. Welcome aboard to Shrapnel and and *IX* Angela Deth - hope to face you across the CM battlefield one day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PawBroon Posted August 4, 2000 Share Posted August 4, 2000 Glad to see some women in here. As a proof of my sexual agnostism, I've been beaten to death by many girlfriends along the years with the game I'd been hooked with at the time... It's a good way to keep the lid on your ego. Welcome on board and congrats on your MOD Angela. ------------------ Either he's dead or my watch has stopped Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted August 4, 2000 Share Posted August 4, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Shrapnel: Oh, and I'd appreciate it if people like Zaffod wouldn't generalize about women not liking war or war games. The women you know may not like them, but that may mean you need to hang out with women who are more hard-core. =) There's a whole hidden network of us out here, who are just trying to survive the weight of expectations (from men and women alike) about what we *should* like or *should* be as women -- things are difficult enough as it is without hearing the same old arguments from within the gaming community.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> This comment interests me. Now, I must say that the great majority of people that I know personally are not interested in war as a field of study nor are they interested in war games. But of the people I've encountered who do have an interest in either, at least 80% are male. And most of the females are in academia, and are not about to become active gamers. Now, it doesn't surprise me (and I wouldn't dispute it) to hear you say that many of the women who do entertain such an interest keep quiet about it. I think I understand a little about the society's expectations and gender roles. Still, considering all that, there does seem to be a really significant difference in the kind of games the two sexes gravitate toward. Women seem to really go for fantasy role playing, magic, adventure and that kind of thing. Lots of men play those games too. But a lot of men also go for the "hardware intensive" games like CM where a familiarity with the weaponry is a big part of the appeal. I think I'm starting to ramble here, so I will cut it off and let somebody else get into the discussion. I just wonder what your thoughts are about this. Michael [This message has been edited by Michael emrys (edited 08-04-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Fox Posted August 4, 2000 Share Posted August 4, 2000 http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/Forum1/HTML/003832.html easy ------------------ "More German prisoners were now arriving. There were well over 150 of them, with a lot more yet to be brought in. I watched them sitting in the dust, knowing they must have been in a state of shock. This was something that had never happened before. They couldn't bring themselves to admit that this was their first defeat of the war. Not only that, but it was suffered at the hands of Australian infantrymen, who were vastly outnumbered and fighting their first battle of the war." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
howardb Posted August 4, 2000 Share Posted August 4, 2000 Wow... women interested in CM that got to be something. No seriously why shouldn't women be interested in tactical wargames? After all we're not that different now anyway are we and history should appeal to all intelligent humans I think it's good that people has fun with whatever they like if it's crossdressing, bowling or wargames who cares as long as it doesn't offend anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted August 4, 2000 Share Posted August 4, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fionn: Aye, a couple of women gamers have written to me in the past week asking CM questions etc. They seem to be shy of posting to this forum because, IMO, all women are quite careful of letting it be known they are around since often it does lead to undesirables acting even more undesirable . I've seen some of what they put up with in online games and some of it is not only puerile but quite pathetic. Guys can be such children. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Interesting that this should come up just now as I was thinking yesterday that there is a kind of schoolboy mysogyny that shows up on the board from time to time. It is usually fairly benign, but it always strikes kind of an off-key note to my ear. Example: Someone the other day discussing throwing handgrenades used the phrase "girly toss" meaning a weak, ineffectual throw. The assumption contained in that kind of language is that women are (at least in a combat setting) weak and ineffectual, men being by contrast strong and can-do. To a large extent a society travels on its myths. Guys have myths about themselves and women just as I'm sure that women have myths about themselves and about men. The urge to protect these myths is strong. But every once in a while a new reality erupts up through all the layers of mythology in which we wrap it and demands that we give it some attention and make some adaptations. We're living in time when for a whole slough of reasons gender roles are being reconsidered and redefined. This is stressful for all concerned. Some people just can't hack the change. But it presents new opportunities too. I think it's grand. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Michael emrys Posted August 4, 2000 Share Posted August 4, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by David Aitken: What gender you happen to be tends to have little to do with your opinions and preferences. Whenever I see or hear of women acting irresponsibly, my reaction used to be "hey, don't do that, you're supposed to have more sense". Eventually I worked out that gender makes no difference. I hate stereotypes... people expect women to like shopping and babies, and supposedly they're smarter than men... whereas men are just witless morons who watch football and drink beer. In reality, if you group people by their character, you'll find equal numbers of men and women in each category. We're all just people - half of us are Model A, the rest are Model B - but that has little to do with the kind of people we are. David<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> No question that women can be as stupid as men. The question is: Are women stupid in ways that are distinct from men? There's a Ph.D thesis in there for someone who wants to do the leg work. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GriffinCheng+ Posted August 4, 2000 Share Posted August 4, 2000 Hello ladies, welcome aboard. One of great things about Internet/BBS forum is they tend to mask one's sexuality. As we can see more and more female joining military services and even more taking leadership roles in the business world, I see no reason why they cannot or would not play wargames. Many of my guy fellows tends to stay away from wargames here, too. I don't feel particular worse being beaten by any other names here on this board than by a female gamer. Frankly, if anybody, regardless of gender, wants a PBEM with me, or TCP/IP later on, are welcome. Have a nice weekend. Griffin going to see X-Men. ------------------ "+" is just the beginning. Expect to see "GriffinCheng76", "GriffinCheng(105)" or "GriffinChengA3E8" more should Forum problems occur again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FutbolHead Posted August 4, 2000 Share Posted August 4, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Scorpion: Shrapnel - sorry for posting my 'generality.' However, I have a very close female friend who works for Gas Powered Games, and she has stated that the statistics show that wargames tend to be low on the list of what female gamers like. That isn't what they *should* like and it isn't making a statement as to what they *should* like, it is simply a matter of numbers. -Scorp<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I think it is only because this is a politically correct day and age that you actually have to explain yourself in such detail as you have here. In reading your original post, you said nothing offensive to begin with. I welcome Shrapnel to the board. That said, I submit the following for thought. People who treat you poorly Shrapnel don't always do so because they have a gripe against women. To blame most or all such instances on male machismo or bias would be wholly unfair. Sometimes guys (and girls) are just plain a * * holes. If you look at the way guys treat other guys you will see this. I often face and submit this to people who cry racism at the drop of a hat. There are mean people in the world, people who are mean to everyone, not just to minorities. But on the flip side, there are also people who are way too sensitive and wish to force the "politically correct" line of thought on everyone which if not submitted to opens them up to accusations of racism, bigotry, etc. etc., regardless of the lack of truth in the accusation. No PC disclaimers here folks. I haven't said anything that isn't true, and if you try to read anything into my statements other than what I said, that's your problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deanco Posted August 4, 2000 Share Posted August 4, 2000 pffftt... Man, I've seen some behavior on the Half-Life servers that made me ashamed to be a guy. Really purile, stupid, uncalled-for stuff. My take is, hey, we're all here to play the game, right? So...let's play. DeanCo-- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FutbolHead Posted August 4, 2000 Share Posted August 4, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Shrapnel: Oh, and I'd appreciate it if people like Zaffod wouldn't generalize about women not liking war or war games. The women you know may not like them, but that may mean you need to hang out with women who are more hard-core. =) There's a whole hidden network of us out here, who are just trying to survive the weight of expectations (from men and women alike) about what we *should* like or *should* be as women -- things are difficult enough as it is without hearing the same old arguments from within the gaming community.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Who exactly are "people like Zaffod"? That's a bit of generalization too, given that the sum total of Zaphod's personality was probably not summed up in the small amount of text he wrote when he expressed his opinion. Zaffod, I for one think your opinion was on topic, I won't ask that you censor it on my behalf. No matter what opinions you state, people will formulate opinions of you (justified or not), so you might as well speak your mind. Honesty is by far a more important characteristic than popularity. I would think that it's a fair bet, that if you polled all the women of the world, generally speaking most, if not the vast majority, don't play wargames or like war. In fact, I would say that goes for most men too. If we were in the days when you would have to wear a scarlet letter and be shunned for playing wargames, then I might be with you on this. But this day and age, anybody, male or female, can let fly the expectations of others and still live fruitful lives. I could give a rat's behind what other's expectations of me are, I have to live with my conscience and what I do. Their hangups are their problems. I'm sure my opinion won't be the most popular one on here, but hey, I don't take polls before I speak. I look at life, people and my experiences with as fair a shake as I can. It's a given that like everyone else, I may be prone to human error. I weigh that in as best I can before I open my trap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted August 4, 2000 Share Posted August 4, 2000 Umm FutbolHead, if you hold that view then you mustn't have logged on to some of the online games I've seen really dumb abuse on. You wouldn't believe the amount of totally uncalled for sexual innuendo and almost stalking-like behaviour I've seen on some of those servers. And the continual barrage of "girly" comments just doesn't help either. As for women liking wargames. Damn, I think we need to develop like a secret handshake or something so we can recognise eachother. I don't know one woman IRL who likes wargames. ;( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sergeant Huang Posted August 4, 2000 Share Posted August 4, 2000 Guys : Be careful of those ladies out there. Trust me, they are silent, deadly killers !! If you get you b**t kicked once only in your past 100 PBEM games, then "he" might be a "she" !! Oh, man !! ------------------ Sgt. Huang I LOVE my country, but my government sucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dalem Posted August 4, 2000 Share Posted August 4, 2000 Gotta say... A good friend of mine invited me along with he and his new wife to Europe this fall. As we were planning the trip, I figured that his wife would be simply tolerating our first few days of the trip gawking at Normandy battle sites, museums, etc., and not really enjoying herself. Well, color me surprised when she whips out some WWII books she had bought and some museum guides - she's very 'into' it and wants to learn more. I mean, I liked her before, but now I'm jealous! -dale Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David Aitken Posted August 4, 2000 Share Posted August 4, 2000 Michael emrys wrote: > Someone the other day discussing throwing handgrenades used the phrase "girly toss" meaning a weak, ineffectual throw. [waves white flag] Bitte nicht schießen! I must own up to this heinous crime. However, I meant it purely as a stereotypical joke - I would be the last person to suggest that women are all weaklings. My choice of words is significant, if not redeeming - with the word 'girly' I'm not really referring to women - I'm referring to a stereotyped image of a girl. I've just complained about hating stereotypes, though, so that makes me a hypocrite - but I meant it purely in jest. =) deanco wrote: > Man, I've seen some behavior on the Half-Life servers that made me ashamed to be a guy. This proves my earlier point exactly. You think they're being stupid, but you feel that you are some way guilty too, being a guy. This is such a misconception - you get stupid, irresponsible girls just like you get mature, sensible guys. People say that in general, girls are supposed to be more mature - but this is IRRELEVANT, because the only way you can employ this 'fact', is by suggesting that ALL girls are more mature, and this is simply untrue. Add statistics to my hate list - I hate it when a newspaper runs an article saying "Research reveals men are sex-crazed neanderthals". Maybe MOST men (and it should be noted that "most" technically means "more than 50%" are sex-crazed neanderthals, but there are still a vast percentage who are not, and there are plenty of sex-crazed women too. People who produce these statistics should keep them to themselves and to the companies who use them - in public they are nothing but inflammatory. FutbolHead wrote: > I would think that it's a fair bet, that if you polled all the women of the world, generally speaking most, if not the vast majority, don't play wargames or like war. In fact, I would say that goes for most men too. (Please note FutbolHead, I'm using your comments as a starting point - I'm not arguing with you!) There may be some biological characteristics of women which make them less interested in war. However, I think society's perceptions of what men should be like and what women should be like, have much more to do with how men and women turn out. I think a lot more women would be active war enthusiasts or war gamers, but they reckon that this is an unwomanlike thing to be doing - in the same way that a lot of men regard it as a manly thing to be doing. It should also be considered that most wargames simulate only men - up until recently, whether women wanted in or not, fighting has been a male pursuit - so this may make women less interested than if there were women soldiers in the game. David Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GriffinCheng+ Posted August 4, 2000 Share Posted August 4, 2000 Female fighting units? Wait till CM2 where there were a lot of woman serving Soviet Union troops such as triple-a units, night fighters, etc. Griffin @ home. ------------------ "+" is just the beginning. Expect to see "GriffinCheng76", "GriffinCheng(105)" or "GriffinChengA3E8" more should Forum problems occur again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lindan Posted August 4, 2000 Share Posted August 4, 2000 women? here? <font size+2 color=red>DAMN!!</font> you mean I can't post naked anymore? welcome aboard! ------------------ visit lindan.panzershark.com member of the Combat Mision webring Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freyland Posted August 4, 2000 Share Posted August 4, 2000 Ahh, Fionn, ever ready to comment on someone else's valid and harmless opinion. And you loudly wonder why someone is always on your case. Hello ladies, nice to meet you. Very nice mod, Angela, thank you. I will email you. This thread is interesting. Typically when a new member introduces himself to the Board, roughly 1-7 people say hi, welcome aboard, and we all move on. This thread seems based on how we should not treat female wargamers any differently, and yet we have ~44 hellos. Just thought I would point that out. Jonathan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FutbolHead Posted August 4, 2000 Share Posted August 4, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Fionn: Umm FutbolHead, if you hold that view then you mustn't have logged on to some of the online games I've seen really dumb abuse on. You wouldn't believe the amount of totally uncalled for sexual innuendo and almost stalking-like behaviour I've seen on some of those servers. And the continual barrage of "girly" comments just doesn't help either. As for women liking wargames. Damn, I think we need to develop like a secret handshake or something so we can recognise eachother. I don't know one woman IRL who likes wargames. ;(<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I can hold that view, because I never said there aren't sexist people out there. What I said was that there are people out there who are mean in general. The same person/people you saw being sexist may also be bigots, racists, etc. etc. etc. all wrapped into one package, i.e. a mean person. The fact that they harrass the women based on their sex merely means that they attempting to use what they see as a weakness against the target of the attack. For that same person you could likely substitute another other form of what they dislike to be used against the applicable target. I have logged into many online games where I have seen any number of different types of anti-social or rude behavior, including sexist commentary. Your example does not provide evidence that contradicts anything I have said. I'm not sure how old you are, or anyone else in here for that matter, but think back to you school days. Chances are, the guys that treated girls poorly weren't the greatest people in general anyway. Most of the ones I remember were also rude or mean to others as well. This is but one example I use. In my day to day work (I'm a police officer), I see bad behavior in lots of people all the time. I find it hard to single out any particular prejudice in the vast majority of them as their general mode of behavior tends to be anti-social. I dont' claim to be a know-it-all or an expert, but I will assert that my opinion is derived from a fair amount of education and experience in the field of human behavior. I stand by it. PS: As an aside, there is no behavior I find "unbelievable". I think I could shock you with a few stories, depending on what level of experience you have had with the "urban jungle". [This message has been edited by FutbolHead (edited 08-04-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex Posted August 4, 2000 Share Posted August 4, 2000 Sorry to change the subject here, but I thought we were trying to guess the origin of Lorak's mysterious handle. If I remember the Saturday mornings of my childhood correctly, wasn't Lorak one of Space Ghost's arch enemies. By the way, I've played wargames for over twenty years, and I'll bet that, in all that time, I've haven't met 10 females that share that interest. I believe that war in general appeals more to men that to women. I don't often see little guys playing army in the streets. It's definity a testosterone thing. Women see the pain and suffering involved in war, men see the glory and excitment. Of course, that's a broad generalization, and there are always exceptions, but the fact that the male posters on this board outnumber the female by a pretty significant amount just proves the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingfish Posted August 4, 2000 Share Posted August 4, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Rex: Sorry to change the subject here, but I thought we were trying to guess the origin of Lorak's mysterious handle. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> http://www.battlefront.com/discuss/Forum1/HTML/003832.html First page, 17th post down...the mystery revealed ------------------ The dead know only one thing - it is better to be alive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freyland Posted August 4, 2000 Share Posted August 4, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR> I dont' claim to be a know-it-all or an expert, but I will assert that my opinion is derived from a fair amount of education and experience in the field of human behavior. I stand by it.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> You go, girl! (oh man, I couldn't resist) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts