Vacillator Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 I'm playing a second PBEM of CMFB Pershing versus Tiger, this time against @cbennett88. One of my Pershings decided to take a long scenic excursion sideways on to the enemy, after I'd asked it to go through what I thought was a hedge. It paid the price of stupidity (mine or theirs I don't know). I don't recall this happening in my first PBEM. Jokingly I suggested to my worthy opponent Chris that perhaps some 'low bocage' had made it's way from Normandy. Loading up the editor however, I see that it is indeed low bocage. Which got me looking for descriptions in the CM manuals (and on the forum) of what bocage (low or normal) is capable of blocking and what it might not block. I can't find anything. Can anyone point me in the right direction please? I've put this in General Discussion as it applies to CMBN and CMFB... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 My understanding is that the low and high bocage blocks movement in CMBN. CMRT and CMFB both have low bocage (but not high) except it does not block armour. Having said that if you want your armour to cross it you need to place a order way point just on one side and the next one just on the other. Otherwise the pathing system might decide to go around or through a gap some distance away. When i am trying to get vehicles to cross any obstacle I always place a way point around 5m away from the obstacle and another way point 5m or so on the other side. That tells the TacAI "I want you to drive through / over this". I do this for streams, hedges, walls, bocage etc. So, also for jeeps, trucks etc. not just tanks. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vacillator Posted April 24 Author Share Posted April 24 5 minutes ago, A Canadian Cat said: When i am trying to get vehicles to cross any obstacle I always place a way point around 5m away from the obstacle and another way point 5m or so on the other side. That tells the TacAI "I want you to drive through / over this". I do this for streams, hedges, walls, bocage etc. So, also for jeeps, trucks etc. not just tanks. Thanks Ian. In my mind I thought I'd done that, but I suppose I might have been a bit sloppy about it. Minus 1 Pershing is the result. Such is war... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WimO Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 In CMBN, CMRT, CMFB, CMRI, bocage (high and low) blocks the movement of everything except armour equipped with bocage cutters. IMO this is not entirely historical since infantry of both sides in Normandy managed to force themselves through the bocage at various points when gaps did not exist. Historical bocage varies in thickness, height and density anywhere from scrubby to double rows back to back. In game, there are two other ways to get through the bocage. Both require blasting, the first with satchel charges and the second by long bombardments with direct fire HE against a single point. It is up to the map or scenario designer to add sufficient breaks in the bocage to create a reasonably playable scenario. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vacillator Posted April 24 Author Share Posted April 24 (edited) 12 minutes ago, WimO said: It is up to the map or scenario designer to add sufficient breaks in the bocage to create a reasonably playable scenario Hi Wim, good to hear from you. I hadn't realised bocage appeared in every WW2 title. I live and learn. I was recently tasked with placing a few 'gates' in a bocage-heavy map so I know exactly what you mean. Edited April 24 by Vacillator 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted April 24 Share Posted April 24 1 hour ago, Vacillator said: In my mind I thought I'd done that, but I suppose I might have been a bit sloppy about it. Yeah, I have had occasion where my method did not work as expected too. I usually figure I messed up but now you are making me want to test it 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warts 'n' all Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 I always thought all hedges in CMFB were passable, despite looking similar to the "low bocage" from CMBN. Perhaps I shall have to re-read the manual. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vacillator Posted April 25 Author Share Posted April 25 10 minutes ago, Warts 'n' all said: Perhaps I shall have to re-read the manual. If you find low bocage in the CMFB manual I'd be interested. I couldn't. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warts 'n' all Posted April 25 Share Posted April 25 I have a very vague recollection of reading that CMFB would only have two types of hedgerow, "Hedge" and "Low Bocage", and that for movement purposes they would be treated the same, unlike in Battle for Normandy. Obviously, now that I want to find it in the manual I can't. So I just ran a quick test with a Locust and a Jeep. Both made short work of the low bocage.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vacillator Posted April 25 Author Share Posted April 25 25 minutes ago, Warts 'n' all said: a Locust and a Jeep. Both made short work of the low bocage As I expected (although your nice pic has a lot of gaps in the bocage ), but why then would my Pershing shy away from the 'fence' aka low bocage? And drive slowly for a long way with its side exposed. Duh, as Billie Eilish would say. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warts 'n' all Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 6 hours ago, Vacillator said: As I expected (although your nice pic has a lot of gaps in the bocage ), Hahahaha. They made those gaps, driving to and fro. As I suspect you knew from your wink. Joking aside. The only thing that I can think of to explain what your Pershing did, is that the "Low Bocage" was set on an impassable terrain tile such as "Heavy Forest". 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anthony P. Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 17 hours ago, Warts 'n' all said: I have a very vague recollection of reading that CMFB would only have two types of hedgerow, "Hedge" and "Low Bocage", and that for movement purposes they would be treated the same, unlike in Battle for Normandy. Obviously, now that I want to find it in the manual I can't. So I just ran a quick test with a Locust and a Jeep. Both made short work of the low bocage.... Huh, so it's from some other title I got the idea that low bocage could be plowed over by vehicles. I couldn't figure out why it wouldn't work in CMBN a couple of months ago. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thilio Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 (edited) In CMBN manual, it's written in the map editor chapter and it corresponds to what WimO wrote. Never found any informations on that in the CMFB manual which is very limited. Edited April 26 by thilio 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thilio Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 (edited) oups, double post Edited April 26 by thilio 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warts 'n' all Posted April 26 Share Posted April 26 (edited) I think we've already established that "Eusebio, but I say WimO" made a slight error. "Bocage" does not feature in CMFB. And that "Low Bocage" does not work in the same way in CMFB as it does in CMBN. Vehicles from tanks down to jeeps can drive through it providing the underlying tile is not impassable. This is from the CMFB scenario editor. Edited April 26 by Warts 'n' all 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 12 hours ago, Warts 'n' all said: "Bocage" does not feature in CMFB. Just because it's Saturday, I felt like adding a bit of extremely uninteresting trivia. There is actually some bocage in CMFB. One scenario that comes with the game has it. It is not available in the CMFB editor though. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew Kulin Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 I use the slow movement command for vehicles if I want to try and force my way through something and I am not sure I can do it. Plus placing waypoints as described on either sides of the feature. That way, if the tank crew decides that it is better to travel 1 km out in the open to get to the other side of the hedge, by using slow command, it has hopefully not yet moved out into a dangerous position, and I can cancel the order and try something else. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lieutenant Ash Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 4 hours ago, Bulletpoint said: Just because it's Saturday, I felt like adding a bit of extremely uninteresting trivia. There is actually some bocage in CMFB. One scenario that comes with the game has it. It is not available in the CMFB editor though. High bocage can appear in most of the CM games if the map was created in CMBN then hex edited across to another title, but it doesn't block vehicle movement like it does in CMBN. Below is a screenshot of a BN map in 'coldwar' with the high bocage in the background. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warts 'n' all Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 6 hours ago, Bulletpoint said: Just because it's Saturday, I felt like adding a bit of extremely uninteresting trivia. There is actually some bocage in CMFB. One scenario that comes with the game has it. It is not available in the CMFB editor though. Ah, i was just going by the scenarios I can remember playing, and by the editor. Perhaps you could tell us which battle has it. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vacillator Posted April 27 Author Share Posted April 27 I think my question has brought up a few interesting 'anomalies' so worth the post perhaps. I should probably look back in the editor to see what is beneath the 'low bocage' in CMFB Pershing versus Tiger. If you haven't tried this one, it's a very good H2H (not sure about other options) with a map that just gets better the more you play it. And I'm feeling happy that in my last turn I got a long-ish range turret shot on a Panther with a Sherman 76mm. KO - nice . Anyway I believe credit is due to @ChrisND. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeyD Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 If you run over stuff you degrade the tracks and slow the vehicle's top speed. Run over too much stuff and you can get an immobilization. Having the AI avoid running over stuff it doesn't need to may be an inconvenience but not a bug. Doing it while in view of the enemy can be giant pain, though. But so is getting immobilized in view of the enemy, too. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warts 'n' all Posted April 27 Share Posted April 27 5 hours ago, Vacillator said: I think my question has brought up a few interesting 'anomalies' so worth the post perhaps. I should probably look back in the editor to see what is beneath the 'low bocage' in CMFB Pershing versus Tiger. Or, maybe an overhead screenshot for the rest of us to look at. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vacillator Posted Sunday at 05:44 PM Author Share Posted Sunday at 05:44 PM I checked the editor. The row of 'low bocage' runs along a line of 'light forest' tiles. There's another line of the same tiles after that, followed by 'heavy forest'. My slow path was plotted through the low bocage / light forest and just into the light forest beyond. The Pershing didn't like that and went AWOL instead. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warts 'n' all Posted Sunday at 10:57 PM Share Posted Sunday at 10:57 PM 5 hours ago, Vacillator said: I checked the editor. The row of 'low bocage' runs along a line of 'light forest' tiles. There's another line of the same tiles after that, followed by 'heavy forest'. My slow path was plotted through the low bocage / light forest and just into the light forest beyond. The Pershing didn't like that and went AWOL instead. That makes sense to me. I had a Half-track decide that it didn't want to drive through a line of "Low Bocage" that was set on "light forest" tiles. It was on "Slow" so didn't rush into danger whilst on it's detour. This happened during the 2nd mission of the "Spearhead" campaign. Although it didn't last too long after that incident. About five minutes later it lost an argument with a 75mm pak round. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thilio Posted Monday at 08:16 PM Share Posted Monday at 08:16 PM 21 hours ago, Warts 'n' all said: This happened during the 2nd mission of the "Spearhead" campaign. A lot of bogged vehicles in this one, including jeeps. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.