CRAP AI, Other BUGS ,Fix Or implement IPX/TCP!!

[CPT STRANSKY]

Ive noticed this so much that its pissing me off. Ie ill give u this example since so many of u are fanatical about details.

SS vs North novas battle. the computer doesnt even attack me with infantry till about the 35-36 turn. 40 turn game.

This has happened 4 times now.

Attacking as the ss the computer really seems to suck especially regarding moving long distances with tanks and troops.

This needs fixing , make the pc more aggressive or somefink.

Also i had 2 mgs and a churchill tank in this defense.

The two mgs spat a few rounds off and as a result all the ss tanks ( i could see them with me snipers) whom were moving foward down the hill all reversed backwards so they were all over and inside each other on the top of the hill and they all pounded the mgs.

15 Turns later when the mgs are dead they move on. Hmm they have not really even moved since turn 1.

But my churchill tank is high up now so they all wait and attack him. 9+ tanks at 1000+ range all go hard on me 1 tank till turn 31.

Me tank is still alive me churchill's crew must be laughing there heads off.

The tanks then decide to advance.

Why bother the game is over.

This is happenning so much in my games its getting stupid. This has happend so may times now hell i can hold his army off with a couple of units.

PBM sucks. I want either good ai or the tcp/ipx patch to play someone who actually attacks. The infantry attacks but moves far too slow. The games prob need turn modifying as well but as a bought game i shouldnt have to do it myself. The makers should fix this.

CM is really good but too mnay mission where u want to defend the computer ai is so buggered.. basically why bother.

Im getting sick of attacking in all my games.

I read the ai is so amazing and rah rah in posts well i havent seen ****!!!

Attacking the computer he can be amusing but generally he does the same tactics and is dull.

All the attacks come via the same stupid areas.. whheres the ai outflank script.. does it even exist.

Im not asking too much here.. the ai should be able to attack ok.

I dont see why i should sit there playing 70 turn games to find the computer attacks in the last turn.

And dont comment to me dont play it then!!

Like some of u do.. i paid for this and i expect a basic attacking thing to be happenning.

Bridges may be a big problem wiht this but in mnay games ive played its not always the case. Please fix!!! or do somefink.

Has anybody had this happen or what?

I can accept boat ai attacking scripts to be bad but thats acceptable but the generally attacking units land based should do an effficent task.

Also i made a quick battle and i had 4998 points worth of gears , the computer chose 3400-3900 after reviewing all his stuff.

It was no where near the pooints value i had.

Whats up with this?

Im using the 1.05 patch correctly installed by the way.

Someone help wiht ideas , suggestions and help fix this game as its too good to be bugged.

cheers all

[Hamstersss]

I'm with whoever the hell this guy is. I want a refund. Let me add a few more bugs that I found:

-No Russians (What, there were no Russians in WWII?)

-Poor implementation of Nuclear weapons.

-No AK47s

-No Aliens

-No chinchillas, hamsters, gerbils, voles, kangaroo rats, nutria or germanboys.

-No MadMatt Mod Packs for the Amiga version.

I'm using 1.05 installed by a monkey, a drunk monkey. But I'm sure it should work.

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You wouldn't know the dust of Thermopylae if it came up to you, handed you a business card reading "Dust of Thermopylae, 480 B.C.E.", then kicked you in the shins.

-Hakko Ichiu

[Maximus]

Did you say your name was Troll?

Granted the Attack-AI is not as good as the Defend-AI, but it doesnt do that bad of a job.

Hint, replay the same battle over and over again. The AI will do something different each time.

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All that sleeps, awakens...

All that awakens, hungers...

All that hungers, feeds...

[Maximus]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Elijah Meeks:

-No Russians (What, there were no Russians in WWII?)<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

CM2 will be the Eastern Front. There will be plenty of Russians there for you to kill.

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All that sleeps, awakens...

All that awakens, hungers...

All that hungers, feeds...

[Guest Big Time Software]

Er... could you at least bitch at us using full sentences, coherently organized thoughts, and something called paragraphs? That is a tough and rambling read there.

Take a couple of deep breaths, do a search on the multitude of discussions about AI, and then perhaps we can talk.

I also ask that anybody following up on this to go easy.

Steve

[Hamstersss]

Um, Maximus, it was a joke brought on by this, er, gentleman's (Changed for BTS, I love you guys) rambling. I kinda figured that would be given away by the tone of the posting or the fact that my other five points were absolutely ludicrous.

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You wouldn't know the dust of Thermopylae if it came up to you, handed you a business card reading "Dust of Thermopylae, 480 B.C.E.", then kicked you in the shins.

-Hakko Ichiu

[This message has been edited by Elijah Meeks (edited 08-30-2000).]

[Guest Rob/1]

Ya Steves right put that stuff together and then maby there a chances that all of us will read the whole thing.

Rob

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Check out my CM web page!

www.geocities.com/robisme_ca/Combat1.html

[Guest Big Time Software]

WHAT?!? Are you kidding!! After all the work we have done to put hamsters into the game you now say that it is all a joke? Geeze, you guys have *got* to make up your minds what it is that you want

Steve

[This message has been edited by Big Time Software (edited 08-30-2000).]

[Speedy]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Big Time Software:

......After all the work we have done to put hamsters into the game........

Steve

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

You mean Hamsters are going to make it into 1.06 , you little beuty!

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Work is the curse of the drinking class.

[This message has been edited by Speedy (edited 08-30-2000).]

[guachi]

My shipped version of CM is 1.02 - the first version with 5000pt QB limits. I played a 5000 pt QB a few months ago with me on the defensive and I set the time to 40 turns (max. possible at the time). I mostly wanted to see for myself what big battles were like.

I ran into a similar problem to the one Stransky describes. The AI was slow to maneuver and heavy combat didn't start until 30 turns in.

I also set up a scenario to test what was better - 1 elite King Tiger or 19 elite Bazooka teams (same cost). I was the bazookas and the AI the KT. The AI never moved the KT.

The AI seems timid on the attack - especially when it has no contact with the enemy. This problem seems greater with tanks than with infantry. Anyone who was around at the time probably remembers the odd behavior the AI exhibited with the armor in Last Defense when it had no contact with the enemy.

Is this a criticsm of CM? Not really, as my two examples are likely the extremes of the types of battles that can be made with CM.

Jason

[Simon Fox]

The earnest little guachi strikes again. He always manages to find the microscopic mote of worth in every cesspool of ranting drivel.

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"But on the 1st of July (D+25) the Regiment had its field day with the Tyneside Scottish in Rauray village. 'C' Sqn bore the brunt of the day-long battle when the Germans launched a massive counter attack on the Polar Bear positions. Throughout the day the Panzers launched savage attacks anf threatened to overrun the infantry. By close of play, from defensive positions an astonishing 34 Panthers had been destroyed, 31 in the Rauray area."

[PeterNZer]

Capt S

If you're playing all your battles with very very large forces I would say that is your problem. Try a smaller battle of 1000 or 1500pts. They are actually a lot of fun and you have to be carefull with each squad. I've also found the AI to be much more interesting on this scale.

With a huge map and huge forces the AI can't help but move slow, it has to check every hedgerow and every thicket and be confident you're not hidding in there.

The AI deliberately doesn't rush forward, it has no knowledge of starting lines, guessing how far into the map you are or any of that stuff. As a rule, it seems to have a great deal less info than the player does, as a result, it plays 'realistically'.

So, go try a smaller map with smaller forces. And you should try PBEM to teach you a lesson in humility. I'd suggest finding a partner with ICQ. Setting each other to auto-save makes things pretty quick on the turn around.

And TCP/IP is in the works

PeterNZ

[CPT STRANSKY]

OK u want a specially written report fine

ive also noticed u are more interested in my writing style than what i have to say, so i take it u are ignoring the real issues?

are u an english teacher or a softwhere developer Steve?

Also i dont see why i should have to read all the posts looking for these issues.

Point being if it was posted as being a problem ages ago why hasnt it been fixed?

Its happening still as there is a problem and its either been missed or ignored.

The attacking AI is a big issue.

As Maximus said above there is a problem. But why the hell should i have to play the game 10+ times to see the computer attack me in a playble way.

Whats that telling u about the games AI? Its screwed.!!! I didnt say it he posted it above with his coment.

"Granted the Attack-AI is not as good as the Defend-AI, but it doesnt do that bad of a job.

Hint, replay the same battle over and over again. The AI will do something different each time"

All im asking is that the AI force reaches my defenses in a good time, and not at the end of the game.

All i want is a game thats works.I dont post these comments to be trashed. I have beta tested for many games, both online and off.

Insulting people who want to help fix game problems is tactically stupid on the point of BTS and players alike

All i want is for decent games to be a good as they can be. Do want a game that works???

Im not moaning for units to be more stronger than they were in real life etc or about tanks and tank ai etc and those who are continually not happy about some small detail.

There is a genuine BIG problem here with attacking AI units that to me is ruining the game for me and possibly others.

I cant tell if tanks are not working properly etc or if the peneration is correct as hell basically they never get there to fight each other.

I will tell u what happened again in simple detail for those to stupid to understand..

The mission being used is an example one of many where the AI attacks either too slow or doesnt attack at all and just sits around and his tanks get stuck on bridges or go off to who knows where. Infantry usually move slowly , they dont run and they seem to stay behind the tanks who themselves are not moving.

All or nothing a long playing battle also experienced the same problems , many units being stuck on the bridge crossing and tanks driving off in weird strange directions.

I spent ages making defenses for nothing.. why did i bother?

Note this SS VS NN mission has been played 5 times and still the same thing happens.

i played it the 6th time and its effects were differenet as i will discuss below.

Misson using same tactics played 5 times

SS vs North Novas

Human North Novas vs AI SS

turn 1. on hill 140 two mg gunners open up with fire onto ss troops on the atatcking sides right hiil ( looking from mgs gunners perspectives)

The german tanks that are moving down the hill and some troops all stop and reverse/run back.

Troops take cover including ones that havent been shot at and tanks on right side and middle all reverse back up hill.

The tanks all move into each others bases and hit each other.

1 panzer IV has his back facing me!!

They all open up excluding the panzer IV on the mg nest including the ones in the middle.

The 2 mg nest is on hill 140.

There ss tanks they stay for 12 turns.

shooting away at me

i move my mgs ( i have 2 ) from there sight

i move one further back and to the left the otehr to the right

the one on the left can now be seen by infantry on the left and a tank. so a few tanks join that tank on the left sides attacking force and they all sit there for 10+ turns tryting to hit him.

my other mg meanwhile goes back out and is shot at for another 6-9 turns before dying.

the tanks on the left flank have been held up for nearly 15+ turns by one mg gunner.? and on the right 20+ turns WTF?

my churchill comes out at turn 10 and is shot at by both both middle and left flank SS tanks.

well they finally stop firing at him at turn 34. other tanks on the right also had started up on him.. the range 1000+.

he got hit alot by was still fine. Ends up at turn 34 -35; they stop shooting, maybe the SS tanks have no ammo left?

the tanks on the left side are halfway up the map as they got bored shooting at churcill tank around turn 30 but the rest are still stuck on the hill.

The left sides attacking tanks got 100 metres from me defenses and the game ended

only 2 of his tanks from the left side force got that far i might add

a tank from the middle made it up about the same as did a puma and a self propelled gun of the rights side forces on the right side.

also 6 ss infantry units got to shoot at my troops for 4 turns before the game ended.

this happens 5 times in a row.. come on. So whats this about the AI doing somefink different.How long does it take please im getting bored???

There miight be a slight difference of maybe an extra unit or somefink being near but thats it.

Another small group of tanks on the left moved up a bit and all stopped and seemed to stop and cluster hitting each other etc

wow i thouguht they were going to advance i was wrong. . they were the tanks not firing at the churchill or the mg

they were waiting for infantry mabe well they never showed up for another 3-5 turns

SO i tried a different approach and i hid my mg gunners and tanks.

The tanks of his moved up and attacked, although some still seemed to go off doing there own thing, as though they were not fighting.

His infantry moved up but still not that fast. They get there around turn 29-30 , not much difference.

And when i say they get there im meaning bugger all guys a small token force of around 6 units that as it attacks get totally destroyed.

I have played the SS side i got all my guys there in turn 14-15 rdy to attack.

im not impressed.

For the SS Tanks aand maybe infantry to basically advance and to maybe get a litle combnat u cant shoot at them; is what i have found. Till they are right there.

In All Or Nothing the tanks get stuck and run into each other etc its stupid.

I saw 4 tanks get stuck on a bridge and they sat there for 20 turns.

3 had there back or sides to me so i shot em all up.

I reloaded it and without killing them they didnt move for the rest if the game.

The US and british tanks that did attack went up the big hill on the right and got stuck and hid in the bushes and didnt move the whole game

i played this game 2 more times and simialr things happened. its a long game and i was pissed off i wasted my time.

Basically any game with large terran pieces to be navigated ie bridges etc dont bother the AI cant handle it.

I would be happy if u instead gave us TCP?IPX it might aleast give us relief, as to the fact we can play a human oponent in a single night match etc.

PBM takes too long , and is a pain in the ass moving attachments around jesuzz man.

Are there any ways u may be able to fix this.

I would be personally happy if u gave me a patch for me to test to see if these things work.

I dont mind spending my time to help make a game that has amazing potential work.

Ive helped so many other games i hate to see a good game like this go the path of Delta Force/ II with too many AI bugs etc

I like the big games and maps and what im finding is i cant play them untill either Ai is fixed or the link patch is made available.

So to try something different i made a big quick game 60 turns and used 5000 points.

The game was boring and easy

I killed the AI and discovered that he had bought only 3400-3600 points of stuff roughly calcualted to what i had bought (5000)

i went back and checked how much allied units cost and yeah i was shocked.

maybe he spent 1000 or so on air support that never shoooowed hmm i dont think so a.

U may want to check into that.

Also with regards to PeterNZer what the hell is the point of BTS making big missions if they wont run properly.

Ive wasted many hours for nothing.

What the hell is the point in playing a game that restricts u in what u can use.

Ive played many small battles.

Alot of battles are big that have been made by BTS. So what are u saying that i should not play half the missions?

What a waste of time for BTS then making maps then designed for AI play of a certain size.

Why play a squad sized game etc i may as well go back and play DF2. Actually no thats sucks, starcraft would be better atleast they always attack, hehe vs all 7 computers hehe easy.

Regarding the fact that troops take time to search bushes etc the troops that came up from the right moved thru the middle bushes, (they got fuurther) than the infantry on the middle and left they just seem to move from left to right and not really foward and the area on the left and right didnt have too much tree cover more open fields etc

As for playing PBM for humilty i have been PBMing for years, and i have played CM PBM with 2 of me mates here in NZ.

Yes im an NZer!!!

The patches and resulting PBM muck ups made me give up as well as the hassles in playing this game PBM. As for icq thats a security risk and i dont use it, i have friends high up in computer security etc ms engineers etc and i have been warned not to use it.

I know people who have been hacked and becasue of my new job im starting soon i cant have me pc hacked. Big security risk!!

Also BTS u have not updated your news page, u put 1.03 patch but have missed 1.04 and now 1.05. I know of some people who only just got 1.05 because they never saw it posted on the news page. PLease fix. Not everyone reads the board.

thanks

ps never trash people who are interested in making a game better. ive been wargamming for 20 years and i have yet to find a good War game. Cm is good still needs some work but.

My classic war game is War in Russia by Gary Grigsby

cheers all

[Guest KwazyDog]

Sorry mate but politeness goes both ways.

You came across in your post as someone out to stir trouble, not to help....I imagine you probably didnt mean it to sound that way but thats the way it sounded.

[This message has been edited by KwazyDog (edited 08-30-2000).]

[Sten]

CPT STRANSKY,

I think, no, I'm certain that Steve would answer your comments/criticism in a constructive manner if you used some basic editing rules and formalized your complaint somewhat.

Your point about the attacking AI has some merit, and could be the start of a good discussion. But your posts are very hard to read and the tone could be somewhat less confrontational.

Regards,

Sten

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Keep your whisky on the rocks and your tanks on the roll.

[mensch]

my eyes hurt from reading.. was that turn 20+ when the Gerbils ate the hamsters? or turn 30+ when the lab mice shot the cow catapult and flatened fuzzy bunny's Mark IV? hmmm me confused.. guys they (BTS) are working hard on the game and it works for me, get a PBEM going so you dont have this prob anymore.. or wait a challange!! make a operation or battle that works... I did.. bug hunting and all (thanks germanboy, Scan and Jadayne).

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"we didn't loose the game; we just ran out of time"

-Vince Lambardi

[Lindan]

And another poster unable to show some basic politeness in the wording of his posts.

It's really getting on my nerves.

If implementing TCP/IP means I have to face more of your ilk I beg BTS NOT to include it.

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visit lindan.panzershark.com

member of the Combat Mission webring

[von Lucke]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by CPT STRANSKY:

Someone help wiht ideas , suggestions and help fix this game as its too good to be bugged. cheers all<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Mwhahahaha! Man, I love this guy!

No really! I'm rollin'! HAHAHA!

[Mike Oberly]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Cm is good still needs some work but.

My classic war game is War in Russia by Gary Grigsby

<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

WIR is a classic example of a game that 'needs some work'.There are huge,game killing bugs that have existed forever,though some of those have been addressed recently by Matrixgames.There's a lot to like about it,but it's more of a mess than a masterpiece in actual practice.And that's coming from someone who bought it when it was initially released,and who has played it off and on since.

Lastly,I agree with some of the others,that your posts would be more widely read and taken more seriously if they were written in a more reader friendly fashion,and with less of an attitude.

Mike

[Guest Germanboy]

Uh, Steve and Charles, I thought I told you about the whinge bug in v.1.04. Obviously your attempt to remove it in 1.05 was yet another show of the hapless and inept coding that we have come to expect from your previous work on this 'broken' product called 'Wombat Mixture: Blonde Overlord', err, sorry, that is in my private video collection, where was I, err, never mind.

Where's von Shrad when you need him?

orginally posted by Capt.S:

Also i dont see why i should have to read all the posts looking for these issues.

[Tiger]

The computer doesn't attack till turn 30? Maybe you're using too big a map and not enough points. Every game I play the computer, on attack, is fairly agressive. I had a very nice game vs the computer recently where the AI managed to use tanks to support the infantry a little too well. It went from small initial skirmishing around turn 6-10 followed by increased pressure where the attack came through, followed by a large chaotic fight around turns 16-23 to mopping up actions for the last 5 turns (me or the computer, I'm not telling)

-johnS

-johnS

[GAZ NZ]

Umm stop insulting NZers hehe and chill out.

Hehe nah u have some valid points mate but umm well be a bit nicer.

Although i must say i have tried those maps and yes there are some problems.

Hopefully it will all be fixed.

Atl east they will fix it? U will wont u guys?

Say PeteNZer where u from?

We can hook up with a game some time.

Im off to NZ police collage in January and im training at present so i may be able to PBEM and may not depending on what im doing.

Give me a yell Pete.

GAZZER

[tailz]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by guachi:

I also set up a scenario to test what was better - 1 elite King Tiger or 19 elite Bazooka teams (same cost). I was the bazookas and the AI the KT. The AI never moved the KT.

The AI seems timid on the attack - especially when it has no contact with the enemy. This problem seems greater with tanks than with

Is this a criticsm of CM? Not really, as my two examples are likely the extremes of the types of battles that can be made with CM.

Jason<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

<portions of quote snipped>

To be completely honest, KT or not, without infantry support, I wouldn't have moved either. If there's one thing CM AI can teach you, it's that unsupported armour is a sitting duck.

[sniperscope]

Just for the record this game is called Combat Mission not close combat.

sniperscope

[pzvg]

Hmm, lessee, You can't be botherd to write in a coherent manner, you can't be bothered to research if this has all been said before, and the answers you did get are patently unacceptable to you, Methinks we should not be bothered to listen to you anymore.

If you write an understandable post, in a polite, knowledge-seeking manner, and listen to what people reply, then you have a chance of getting somewhere.

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Pzvg

"Murphy's law of combat #10, never forget your weapon is made by the lowest bidder