What makes Red Thunder special?

[chuckdyke]

28 minutes ago, Simicro said:

Hello,

Can you please elaborate a bit.

Do you mean that CMRT maps graphics are superior compared to other WW2 titles?

Or are they better designed, in terms of geography and terrain?

Other?

They are a decent size compared to Battle for Normandy. 

[Simicro]

37 minutes ago, chuckdyke said:

They are a decent size compared to Battle for Normandy. 

Thank you Chuck. Clear.

[Artkin]

1 hour ago, Simicro said:

Hello,

Can you please elaborate a bit.

Do you mean that CMRT maps graphics are superior compared to other WW2 titles?

Or are they better designed, in terms of geography and terrain?

Other?

The latter. Theyre bigger maps with more diverse and interesting environments.

[Simicro]

Thanks Artkin.

[Artkin]

4 hours ago, Simicro said:

Thanks Artkin.

I was in bed and half asleep.

When you buy CMRT it comes with quite a few massive maps. They're ok. There are 6 maps that you must download to get a complete CMRT in my opinion. Orsha 1-5, and Rad Full 2. Rad may be a little harder to find but all six maps should be in the CMRT section of thefewgoodmen.com/tsd3.

Orsha 1-5 are five 3x5km maps arranged in an E-W pattern. Orsha 1 is the Easternmost map, and Orsha 5 is the Westernmost map.

Radzy is a 5.7x5.7km supermap, but is smaller than two of the orsha maps combined.

Then when you buy F&R you get like 15-20 master maps all of which are unique, massive and make for very interesting engagements. Like I said, even if you don't like CMRT (Impossible) the maps will be worth your dime when ported to the other games.

The BP1 adds quite a few more high quality masters, like 10-15. I forget.

The CMRT master maps are among the best in the series. The MG maps are really good but don't fit too well in this setting with their hedgerows.

Edited May 13, 2023 by Artkin

[Simicro]

Artkin,

It's very kind of you to provide all those detailed and precise informations  Much appreciated 

You know, I'm kinda lazy so I'm not really into scenario creation. I don't play either Quick Battle, I only play stock scenarios. So I'm not sure that the master maps will be useful to me. However I'm interested in the 'more diverse and interesting environments'. I still have many many hours of play with CMBN and CMFI but I think CMRT will be my next purchase when time comes.

[Artkin]

Just now, Simicro said:

Artkin,

It's very kind of you to provide all those detailed and precise informations  Much appreciated 

You know, I'm kinda lazy so I'm not really into scenario creation. I don't play either Quick Battle, I only play stock scenarios. So I'm not sure that the master maps will be useful to me. However I'm interested in the 'more diverse and interesting environments'. I still have many many hours of play with CMBN and CMFI but I think CMRT will be my next purchase when time comes.

Ah well you should look into it. The scenario editor is top notch, a lot of work was put into it and it pays off. The most enjoyable thing I get from the editor is being able to deploy, organize, and theorize with larger formations (Regiments etc...). Combat Mission is THE perfect tool to demonstrate how these higher level organizations were used on the battlefield.

The scenarios that come with CMBN and CMRT are the best of the best. If a person doesn't own either of these titles I believe they are missing out on the true CM experience.

[Vacillator]

2 hours ago, Simicro said:

I think CMRT will be my next purchase when time comes

Do it Tony, you will not regret it.  @Artkin is correct about the best of the best.

[PEB14]

9 hours ago, Vacillator said:

Do it Tony, you will not regret it.  @Artkin is correct about the best of the best.

I agree it's very good. But be warned: if you played only CMFI/CMBN then you will be surprised, because of the terrain and of the structure of the forces involved it's VERY different. IMHO CMRT is a more difficult game than CMBN/CMFI. Start with the training campaign. While you'll simply walk over the enemy in the first scenarios, you might be surprised by the last one…

In general my win/losses ratio is terrible in CMRT. (I mean, a lot worse than in CMBN/CMFI… ).

 

12 hours ago, Artkin said:

Ah well you should look into it. The scenario editor is top notch, a lot of work was put into it and it pays off.

What is different from the CMFI and CMBN editors? (I haven't checked because I don't intend to create Eastern Front scenarios (only to play them).

 

[Simicro]

@Artkin @Vacillator @PEB14 Thanks for your additional infos. Okay guys, CMRT is high on my list 

[Simicro]

By the way, the order for realeasing CM games on Steam this year is: CMBN, CMRT, CMFI, CMFB.

It looks like it is also the order of popularity of the titles...

[PEB14]

21 hours ago, Artkin said:

When you buy CMRT it comes with quite a few massive maps. They're ok. There are 6 maps that you must download to get a complete CMRT in my opinion. Orsha 1-5, and Rad Full 2. Rad may be a little harder to find but all six maps should be in the CMRT section of thefewgoodmen.com/tsd3.

By the way, I'm wondering why you guys find those masssive maps so interesting. What do you do with these? Quick battle maps? Fictional scenarios?

I'm really wondering (no offense intended, just curiosity!).

[Artkin]

3 hours ago, PEB14 said:

What is different from the CMFI and CMBN editors? (I haven't checked because I don't intend to create Eastern Front scenarios (only to play them).

 

No difference, same thing. Just different independent buildings and slightly different terrain tiles (i.e. no vineyards or hedgerows). 

Cmbn maps port fine to CMRT so you can get hedgerows but they function a little strange. They are there visually but I think they are actually low hedges (Not sure). The ground underneath the hedges is still raised by 1m, so they still function mostly normal. 

[Artkin]

1 minute ago, PEB14 said:

By the way, I'm wondering why you guys find those masssive maps so interesting. What do you do with these? Quick battle maps? Fictional scenarios?

I'm really wondering (no offense intended, just curiosity!).

Personally I like to build gigantic formations and pit them against each other. Not all at once of course. 

Once I built 3rd Guards Tank Corps of 5th Guards Tank Army and 5th Panzer Division (I did 5th SS also). I'm pretty sure they fought at Radzymin in 1944. Its been a while so I'm not sure. 

I like the open room to manuever. Tight maps dont allow commanders to do anything fancy. Its usually a head on fight into the enemy. It can make an attack/defense feel like a meetimg engagement (big point difference). Etc etc. 

[PEB14]

8 minutes ago, Artkin said:

Personally I like to build gigantic formations and pit them against each other. Not all at once of course. 

Once I built 3rd Guards Tank Corps of 5th Guards Tank Army and 5th Panzer Division (I did 5th SS also). I'm pretty sure they fought at Radzymin in 1944. Its been a while so I'm not sure. 

I like the open room to manuever. Tight maps dont allow commanders to do anything fancy. Its usually a head on fight into the enemy. It can make an attack/defense feel like a meetimg engagement (big point difference). Etc etc. 

That's frightening… 1 division against once corps? That's something like… 1000 squads on map?

Beyond 1 battalion of troops I get lost…

[PEB14]

15 minutes ago, Artkin said:

No difference, same thing. Just different independent buildings and slightly different terrain tiles (i.e. no vineyards or hedgerows). 

Cmbn maps port fine to CMRT so you can get hedgerows but they function a little strange. They are there visually but I think they are actually low hedges (Not sure). The ground underneath the hedges is still raised by 1m, so they still function mostly normal. 

Well, therefore I should disagree. I wouldn't rate the editor as "top notch". Well, for the way you use it it might be, because of all the preset historical formations (I agree there is a lot of historival research work behind it), but drawing maps with the editor is not user-friendly AT ALL, and the AI programming is not very intuitive either…

[Artkin]

1 minute ago, PEB14 said:

That's frightening… 1 division against once corps? That's something like… 1000 squads on map?

Beyond 1 battalion of troops I get lost…

Nah not at once. The max you can do before the game starts crapping out is about 1000 infantry per side. About the regimental level. A soviet tank brigade with 63 tanks and a battalion of motorized infantry work pretty nicely against a mixed german force derived from the panzer division

[Artkin]

Just now, PEB14 said:

Well, therefore I should disagree. I wouldn't rate the editor as "top notch". Well, for the way you use it it might be, because of all the preset historical formations (I agree there is a lot of historival research work behind it), but drawing maps with the editor is not user-friendly AT ALL, and the AI programming is not very intuitive either…

It's better than most editors. Even Arma 2 had a 2d editor back in the day. 

[kevinkin]

3 hours ago, PEB14 said:

I wouldn't rate the editor as "top notch".

Could you point us all to a better editor given that the scenarios created by it are unrivaled. My wallet is open. Thanks.  

[PEB14]

47 minutes ago, kevinkin said:

Could you point us all to a better editor given that the scenarios created by it are unrivaled. My wallet is open. Thanks.  

I don't get your point. Indeed the scenarios created are great. And I'm really impressed by what the scenarios and campaign creators do achieve. Deep respect.

What I mean is that the scenario editor is not very user friendly, which makes the task of creating scenarios and campaign difficult. You've created yourself several sceanrios with the editor, so you even know better than myself what improvements could be made to make the creator's life easier!

[kevinkin]

What's hard about it? Everything you need is in the manual. Once you go through the process step by step, you can create a scenario using a master map (or sub section) in less than an hour. The real work comes from historical research, playtesting and balancing. Those are not related to the editor. Making a map from scratch is time consuming, but I can't see it being anymore user friendly given the level of detail the product allows. That' why I asked for a point of reference. Something I can compare CM to. 

[benpark]

Feel free to ask questions about any areas you get stuck on. A few of us tend to live overlong in the thing, so we can jump in on information for people learning the ropes.

It may not be the most intuitive of systems, but it has a lot of adaptability once you get the hang of it. Most of the confusing bits (2D to 3D/timings/triggers) initially are the most open to creativity, so it can be worth the work if the end goal is something pre-conceived, or historically based.

[Artkin]

Yeah everything in the editor is pretty intuitive except for the AI triggers. I still don't how to use them, but then again I never checked how. Most things in the editor are pretty easy to use.

[BornGinger]

On 3/21/2023 at 7:39 PM, Aragorn2002 said:

Killing Russians. A must for a wargame.

As the talk is about Red Thunder and the Soviet forces there is also quite a lot of killing of Ukrainians.

[kevinkin]

26 minutes ago, Artkin said:

AI triggers

One great wargame experience years ago was learning how to use them in small test scenarios in Scenario Designer mode. Makes for a fun evening or two.