Why Tanks Are Firing Their MG at Enemy Tanks

[CanuckGamer]

My friend and I both picked up Cold War a couple of months ago.  We have been playing  the WW2 titles going back 20 years.  The scenario we are playing is Mittelascherbach and I've noticed that my heavy tanks are continually firing their MG at enemy tanks after firing their main gun or before firing their main gun.  I don't recall this happening in any of the WW2 games like CMBN or CMRT.  I'm thinking this is a bug in that MG fire should only be directed at a soft target.

[chuckdyke]

1 hour ago, CanuckGamer said:

  I'm thinking this is a bug in that MG fire should only be directed at a soft target.

It could be a method of gun laying. Early Cold War the 106 mm Recoilless Rifle and the Cent had ranging guns of 12.7mm caliber. There were some tests not done by me which suggest that firing light at an area improves your chances, when a tank arrives there the odds that you hit improve.

 

[RockinHarry]

5 hours ago, chuckdyke said:

It could be a method of gun laying. Early Cold War the 106 mm Recoilless Rifle and the Cent had ranging guns of 12.7mm caliber. There were some tests not done by me which suggest that firing light at an area improves your chances, when a tank arrives there the odds that you hit improve.

 

Yup, gun laying or getting the crew to button up maybe. I find it more disturbing when the TacAI decides firing on single pixeltroopers with heavy HE. I don´t always want setting an armor target arc, depending on situation.

[chuckdyke]

2 hours ago, RockinHarry said:

Yup, gun laying or getting the crew to button up maybe. I find it more disturbing when the TacAI decides firing on single pixeltroopers with heavy HE. I don´t always want setting an armor target arc, depending on situation.

Yes something else they don't model in the game is Tank A shoots the MG and Tank B shoots WP to set it alight.

 

[Brille]

The reason you haven't witnessed it in the ww2 games would be simply because there are not that many roof mounted MG around. And even if you have any, they can mostly only be operated when the crew looks out or is not occupied with other things. 

Besides that there are some mounting configurations that makes it impossible or at least very hard to use these MG against ground targets. (M10, some sherman versions...) 

Most of the tanks in CMCW have a remote controlled MG on top or at least, in case of the M60, full armor protection for the operator/commander while using it.

I don't know if this is/was common practice to fire those at enemy armor but they can do quite some damage even to MBT. They can hurt/kill crewmembers, while they take a lookout or they can damage or destroy optics, smoke launchers and other externally attached equipment. 

 

[The_Capt]

On 12/5/2022 at 8:35 AM, Brille said:

The reason you haven't witnessed it in the ww2 games would be simply because there are not that many roof mounted MG around. And even if you have any, they can mostly only be operated when the crew looks out or is not occupied with other things. 

Besides that there are some mounting configurations that makes it impossible or at least very hard to use these MG against ground targets. (M10, some sherman versions...) 

Most of the tanks in CMCW have a remote controlled MG on top or at least, in case of the M60, full armor protection for the operator/commander while using it.

I don't know if this is/was common practice to fire those at enemy armor but they can do quite some damage even to MBT. They can hurt/kill crewmembers, while they take a lookout or they can damage or destroy optics, smoke launchers and other externally attached equipment. 

 

This.  As we have seen in Ukraine, once contact is made and the shooting starts everything goes.  In CMCW we have a lot of turret mounted .50 cals on the US side with the M60 series and they are definitely going to open up on enemy armor.  AP .50 cal can damage enemy optics etc, as well ricochets can hit supporting infantry.  The reality is guys are going to let loose on any enemy with pretty much what they have. Fire discipline will try and control usage rates but restrictions on target types is incredibly hard to enforce.  Or worse, if you do somehow beat it into them you get troops afraid to fire and hesitate.

As we expected CW is WW2 on steroids.  The ranges and intensity of fires increases dramatically and tactics need to adapt.

[IICptMillerII]

On 11/10/2022 at 6:48 PM, CanuckGamer said:

My friend and I both picked up Cold War a couple of months ago.  We have been playing  the WW2 titles going back 20 years.  The scenario we are playing is Mittelascherbach and I've noticed that my heavy tanks are continually firing their MG at enemy tanks after firing their main gun or before firing their main gun.  I don't recall this happening in any of the WW2 games like CMBN or CMRT.  I'm thinking this is a bug in that MG fire should only be directed at a soft target.

It happens in the WW2 titles as well, I've witnessed it many times. I would chalk it up as a quirk/feature of the TacAI, which is universal across all the games. 

[A Canadian Cat]

I hate it when my vehicles start getting peppered with .50cal in CMCW. It means that vehicle is about to have a really, really bad day in about 2s.

[strac_sap]

Definitely would be a quirk, and since I don't know how the AI actually makes decisions I assume its about the TC (tank commander) having the gun available even when buttoned and has a target. For a real engagement a TC wouldn't be firing the .50 (M85 on the ole M60) but keeping control of the crew and tank, in particular directing the gunner to the target. Unless he saw a target of opportunity to take out a crew member, and then that would be a chaos of war scenario. Also, don't want to give any ATGMs in the area extra data about your location, especially before the first shot.

That said, in the game it does work. Especially the odd hits on crew and subsystems, and suppression of anyone nearby.

[Lethaface]

I'm glad they do. It can force the enemy TC to button up, cause suppression and degrade optics. Obviously it won't deliver the knock out punch, but it will facilitate it's proper delivery ;-).

[wolfgang500]

Using the heavy MG for ranging purposes was common practice with Centurions. The American Tanks from M47 onwards had a stereoscopic or coincidence rangefinder respectivly which made that method obsolete. From 25 years personal expierience on the M60 series I can assure you that during firefight the tank commander is busy with the rangefinder and has no time for the cupola MG M85. Originally intended as a AA weapon (useless of course) it could be put to good use against soft vehicles and light armour. But while the commander was engaging targets with his M85 the gunner was left on his own, possibly with a default setting of i.e. HEAT 1000m.
I would suggest therefore that in future patches M60s do not open up with the cupola mounted MG while engaging enemy tanks.

[Vergeltungswaffe]

Thank you for your service, Sir.

[chuckdyke]

16 hours ago, wolfgang500 said:

Using the heavy MG for ranging purposes was common practice with Centurions.

The coaxial .50 was a dedicated aiming gun to assist the main gun. 

[Grey_Fox]

I've noticed that when given the opportunity, the AI will choose to engage a turned-out crewman with the coax rather than fire the main gun into the vehicle. 

This was behaviour became most apparent to me when I had three T-64s engaging an M167. All three T-64s proceeded to spend the next three (!) turns trying to snipe the gunner of the PIVADs with the coax and the commanders' MGs. Once he was dead, the PIVADs was destroyed by a couple of HEAT rounds.