cesmonkey Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Beleg85 said: So, with great regret, we most probably have first (confirmed) destruction of Himars. Russian troops destroyed the M142 Himars system launcher belonging to the Ukrainian Armed Forces. The destruction was the result of counter-battery fire conducted by the Russian 9K515 Tornado-S missile system. Nikanorovka, about 40 kilometers from the contact line at Horlivka. After all this time and countless media flipflops on their part it frankly looks like proof that Russia Sux rather than Russia Rulez. At least in this narrow field. Rybar says 50 km from the front line instead of 40. Either way, that's quite a distance. Edited March 5 by cesmonkey 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan/california Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 1 hour ago, cesmonkey said: Did anyone else see this nutty story? https://www.rt.com/news/593781-no-f35s-ukraine-pentagon/ No F-35s over Ukraine – Pentagon Singapore’s defense chief earlier claimed that Washington had used the jets to spy on Russian surface-to-air missile sites Article is from RT, so credibility is not presumed to be great. If Singapore actually said that, it is possible that China is using assets and connections in Singapore to throw Putin a bone. The Taurus conversation intercept originated from Singapore as well. It feels like the beginning of a trend. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 (edited) 28 minutes ago, cesmonkey said: Rybar says 50 km from the front line instead of 40. Either way, that's quite a distance. Last month it was a NASAMS. If Russia starts using Tornado-S in larger numbers it could become a serious problem. Edited March 5 by Vanir Ausf B 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cesmonkey Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 28 minutes ago, dan/california said: Article is from RT, so credibility is not presumed to be great. If Singapore actually said that, it is possible that China is using assets and connections in Singapore to throw Putin a bone. The Taurus conversation intercept originated from Singapore as well. It feels like the beginning of a trend. So Singapore is a Russian or Chinese ally? Really? I'm sure they still have decent economic relations. https://www.mindef.gov.sg/web/portal/mindef/news-and-events/latest-releases/article-detail/2024/February/28feb24_speech Quote More recently, the US used their F-35s to locate and identify surface-to-air missile sites of Russian units in Ukraine, and this information was shared with NATO countries 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 (edited) 6 hours ago, The_Capt said: I am assuming western intelligence is chasing after this stuff and the real answer is likely classified for now. This particular flavour of secret squirrel behaviour always amuses me. I have to assume the Russians already know what's in (or, as the case may be, not in) their tanks. Yes, yes; "protecting sources and methods", but I do have to wonder whether widely publicising that the Russian armed forces are already on a steep de-modernisation slope would deflect some of the "all is woe" narrative. Edited March 5 by JonS 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Capt Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 3 minutes ago, JonS said: This particular flavour of secret squirrel behaviour always amuses me. I have to assume the Russians already know what's in (or, as the case may be, not in) their tanks. Yes, yes; "protecting sources and methods", but I do have to wonder whether widely publicising that the Russian armed forces are already on a steep de-modernisation slope would deflect some of the "all is woe" narrative. With anything in these realms it is a cost/risk/payoff question. A lot of what they are getting is likely from captured Russian equipment so "hidden assets" may be less of a consideration. But if they do have people inside Russian manufacturing - and given the "money talks" dynamic of Russian corruption I am willing to bet they do - burning them by releasing insider info would have to lead to a significant gain. And here is the problem, widely publicizing is going to sell well with people already onside (like us) but those against are simply going to call it "lies...more lies!" and ignore it. So my guess is that it is being held inside the bubble and used to inform decisions. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 (edited) 22 hours ago, TheVulture said: Modern hull thicknesses are probably in the 10-50mm range depending on the ship Ok, but a lot of cargo ship hulls - including all tankers - ARE double skin and each layer is ~20mm giving ~40mm of spaced "armour equivalent" (although presumably they use a different grade of steel) Edited March 6 by JonS 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 7 minutes ago, The_Capt said: those against are simply going to call it "lies...more lies!" and ignore it. Fair. Le sigh. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Battlefront.com Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 1 hour ago, cesmonkey said: Rybar says 50 km from the front line instead of 40. Either way, that's quite a distance. Wouldn't it be great if Rybar announced "after 2 years of claiming to hit a HIMARS, we apparently finally did. Maybe in 2026 we will get a second one!". Looks like Ukraine is going to have to revisit/revise their risk minimization strategy. There's no way Russia just got randomly lucky. Which means there's something to counter whatever Russia did to get this hit. Steve 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Letter from Prague Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 What is a time on target for ballistic missile? I would intuitively expect them to be quite slow, so this destroyed HIMARS sounds like Ukraine making a mistake and reusing a hiding place, instead of Russian ISR getting faster. But I dunno. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan/california Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 37 minutes ago, cesmonkey said: So Singapore is a Russian or Chinese ally? Really? I'm sure they still have decent economic relations. https://www.mindef.gov.sg/web/portal/mindef/news-and-events/latest-releases/article-detail/2024/February/28feb24_speech Not an ally, but perhaps deciding that whatever the Chinese are offering is worth tilting a bit. If Singapore doesn't come up in the Ukraine related news for the next six months, perhaps it is random coincidence. If there are two more things out of there that advantage Putin in the next month... 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonS Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 (edited) @Letter from Prague Launch sequence ~30mins Flight time ~ 3mins Sensor-shooter time ~??? If the SS time were even 2 hours, that's still 'quick' enough to hit a hide. It's just not feasibly practical to redeploy every 30 mins or so. I mean, in theory it could be done, but the himars crews would be wrecked inside 72hrs. Edited March 5 by JonS 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 31 minutes ago, Letter from Prague said: What is a time on target for ballistic missile? I would intuitively expect them to be quite slow, so this destroyed HIMARS sounds like Ukraine making a mistake and reusing a hiding place, instead of Russian ISR getting faster. But I dunno. If reporting is accurate this was not a ballistic missile, but rather the Russian analog to GMLRS. The Russians claim a three minute "launch-ready" time for the system, but who knows. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panzermartin Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 Still a mystery that no Lancet caught a Himars off guard and the first kill is from a GMLRS. (Although I recall unconfirmed russian claims of destroyed himars in the past ) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vanir Ausf B Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 5 minutes ago, panzermartin said: Still a mystery that no Lancet caught a Himars off guard and the first kill is from a GMLRS. (Although I recall unconfirmed russian claims of destroyed himars in the past ) Lancet range is about 40 km so Ukraine could be holding them just out of range. This HIMARS was 50 km behind the front line so that tracks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
panzermartin Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 8 minutes ago, Vanir Ausf B said: Lancet range is about 40 km so Ukraine could be holding them just out of range. This HIMARS was 50 km behind the front line so that tracks. Only 40k? I had never checked but I thought that it had at least 100+ 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kinophile Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kinophile Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kinophile Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 Fully expect this to get hit too. Btw, anyone notice that when UKR damages a vessel but doesnt sink it, they always come back, even quite late, to finish the job? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraft Posted March 5 Share Posted March 5 48 minutes ago, Kinophile said: I think this is last reserves being commited as the out of EU shells seem all but confirmed to arrive, so no need to pay with lives what artillery can do 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kinophile Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 Fully expect this to get hit too. Btw, anyone notice that when UKR damages a vessel but doesnt sink it, they always come back, even quite late, to finish the job? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kinophile Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 (edited) "specifically designed to counter maritime drones".... Edited March 6 by Kinophile 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vet 0369 Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 On 3/4/2024 at 4:58 AM, Beleg85 said: Could be a little difficult. "Guys, I am going for shopping to newest Krauss-Maffei Wegmann tank dealer saloon, do you need anything?" Most countries by that time were discouraged from selling any serious, top-shelf military eqipment to UA. I think we all agreed it was wrong policy, so no point in further beating dead horse. Well, to be fair, there is a specific reason that NO NATO country will sell (or give) their latest and greatest weapon systems to Ukraine. Please reference the pictures of the knocked out Abrams (along with others of Leopards, Bradley’s, et Al). It is a thing called “technological security.” One just doesn’t send their best and highest technology to a situation where the technology can end up being looted! Case in point, when I was stationed in Japan as a mechanic on USMC F4-J Phantom II in 1970, the USN wouldn’t allow Us to send any into Vietnam because they were “too new, and would constitute a security risk!” And those would have been used in Direct Support of our own Marines on the ground! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vet 0369 Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 16 hours ago, The_MonkeyKing said: Yeah! Here is the vid lataus.mp4 Thank you, that was excellent! The music sounded like a “ Sea Chanty” to this old Devil Dog New Englander! The fiddle and drum beat actually had me tapping my foot and smiling from ear to ear! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vet 0369 Posted March 6 Share Posted March 6 8 hours ago, Kinophile said: Well, its Russians saying 12 (ie, a lie) so double that as a rule of thumb. Perhaps it isn’t a lie. Perhaps those are the total number of under strength crew on the boat? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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