CanuckGamer Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 We are about 60% through playing the Against the Odds scenario and I am playing the Russians. I have lost about a dozen tanks to two German tanks, both Mark IVs. One King Tiger was hit about a dozen times, 8 of them from the rear. Of the dozen 3 were from a SU-122 firing 122 mm AP. One of the hits rocked the Tiger and it indicated gun mount hit. Unfortunately it didn't disable the main gun so it then knocked out the SU-122. Earlier it knocked out another SU-122. Talk about being indestructible!!!! There are three Russian planes which are "preparing" so unless they can knock out the Tiger and my friend tells me there are more, then this scenario is over. I'm really surprised the 122 mm hits from the SU didn't take the Tiger out. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckdyke Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 (edited) 34 minutes ago, CanuckGamer said: I'm really surprised the 122 mm hits from the SU didn't take the Tiger out. Yes the odds are definitely against you when coming face to face against the AI or TacAI. My very first experience was in Battle for Normandy a Mark IV against an M8 Scout Car! Made me wonder why the Americans made the M4 Shermans? Back to the days of Beyond Overlord Stuarts could knock out a King Tiger tank. Things are improving lol Edited January 23, 2022 by chuckdyke 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FredLW Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 (edited) Which SU122 was that ? Short barelled or long barelled, with similar gun as JS2 ? Even in later case, front hull or turret armor of Tiger II may withstand to 122mm shell, but will high probably take some damages. Short barelled 122 gun is far less effective. KT is not invincible, just use massive attack as usual on eastern front (in below gamme, 4 dammaged KT were facing 8x T34.85 + 8x JS2.. on open ground... Edited January 23, 2022 by FredLW 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 9 hours ago, CanuckGamer said: Of the dozen 3 were from a SU-122 firing 122 mm AP. The SU-122 in CMRT does not carry AP. The late one has HEAT. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, FredLW said: or long barelled, with similar gun as JS2 It helps to use the right names. SU-122 (T-34 chassis, very short gun): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SU-122 The SU-122 was an assault gun akin to the StuH.42, not a tank hunter.....The tank hunters of the T-34 family were the SU-85 and later the SU-100 (& SU-85M). ISU-122 (IS-2 Chassis, long gun with no muzzle brake, same mantlet as ISU-152): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISU-122 ISU-122S (IS-2 chassis, long gun with muzzle brake, new ball shaped mantlet): This is the one to go hunting big cats with! Edited January 23, 2022 by Sgt.Squarehead 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbsapp Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 10 hours ago, CanuckGamer said: We are about 60% through playing the Against the Odds scenario and I am playing the Russians. I have lost about a dozen tanks to two German tanks, both Mark IVs. One King Tiger was hit about a dozen times, 8 of them from the rear. Of the dozen 3 were from a SU-122 firing 122 mm AP. One of the hits rocked the Tiger and it indicated gun mount hit. Unfortunately it didn't disable the main gun so it then knocked out the SU-122. Earlier it knocked out another SU-122. Talk about being indestructible!!!! There are three Russian planes which are "preparing" so unless they can knock out the Tiger and my friend tells me there are more, then this scenario is over. I'm really surprised the 122 mm hits from the SU didn't take the Tiger out. Had the same issues with ISU152 hit the side of King Tiger with zero result (it killed ISU 2 sec later). Unfortunately, ISUs are underpowered + frag artillery rounds aren't modelled right in the game. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 2 minutes ago, dbsapp said: Had the same issues with ISU152 hit the side of King Tiger with zero result (it killed ISU 2 sec later). If it was a direct hit, that probably should not have happened.....It's more or less the same as taking a direct hit from a destroyer! If the shell impacted on the armour the Tiger the crew should be going benny-mental.....There are descriptions from crews of their tanks 'ringing like a bell' and of being able to see daylight through the weld-seams after ISU rounds exploded on their armour. Needless to say, the tanks broke and the crew didn't stay in them to find out exactly how long it would take for the welds to crack completely and for the turret roof to fall on their heads! Here's some of their handiwork on Panthers: : 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 The (I)SU-152 only carries a few AP rounds. It is possible that they were depleted or that HE was used for other reasons. Penetration of the HE round is just less than the Tiger's side. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbsapp Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 152mm HE would destroy or critically damage any tank, including modern ones. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 10 minutes ago, Redwolf said: The (I)SU-152 only carries a few AP rounds. It is possible that they were depleted or that HE was used for other reasons. Penetration of the HE round is just less than the Tiger's side. I was talking about HE rounds in my own comments.....I'd really have to dig to source the anecdotes, but they're real enough. I believe the images of destroyed Panthers feature the products of the full spectrum of ISU-152 fire. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 33 minutes ago, Sgt.Squarehead said: I was talking about HE rounds in my own comments.....I'd really have to dig to source the anecdotes, but they're real enough. I believe the images of destroyed Panthers feature the products of the full spectrum of ISU-152 fire. The first two images up in this thread are obviously from AP shells. The other two show brittle armor so you can't really tell. And a Panther has less than half the side amor compared to a Tiger. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 This well referenced article might interest you: 43 minutes ago, Sgt.Squarehead said: In August of 1944, the Soviets captured a shiny new German tank, the Tiger II (depending on who you ask). Obviously, the Soviet were curious about the tank’s thick armour, and it was tested extensively (courtesy of litl-bro). The Soviet findings are largely the same: “The front plates of the hull and turret, as demonstrated in the trials, are low quality. When the armour was not penetrated (dented), the armour formed large cracks, and large fragments broke off the rear side.” Don’t worry about the “front” qualifier, the side armour is discussed in a later section of the report. “Due to a decrease in the armour quality, and due to relatively weak side armour, the tank is vulnerable to domestic 85, 100, 122, and 152 mm guns, as well as the American 76.2 mm gun”. The gunnery report is also quite critical of the armour: “The quality of the armour of the Tiger B dropped radically compared to the quality of armour of the Tiger H, Panther, and Ferdinand”. Translations of parts of these reports are available here, here, here, here, and here. http://ftr.wot-news.com/2014/02/06/on-german-armour/ German armour appears to have gone downhill a lot earlier than is widely believed (ie: German armour plate was deemed unacceptable to the Soviets when they were cooperating pre-1941). Apologies for the format of the quote, couldn't figure out how to do it any other way.....Don't take it as gospel, but it looks very well referenced as I said & the author is pretty knowledgeable. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbsapp Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 12 minutes ago, Redwolf said: And a Panther has less than half the side amor compared to a Tiger. If I remember correctly, both King Tiger and Panther had the same side armor. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 (edited) Yep.....It all came from the same German foundries. The RAF had a real soft-spot for those, gave them lots of love & attention. Edited January 23, 2022 by Sgt.Squarehead 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanuckGamer Posted January 23, 2022 Author Share Posted January 23, 2022 4 hours ago, Redwolf said: The SU-122 in CMRT does not carry AP. The late one has HEAT. Ok, it is actually a ISU-122 assault gun and it carries 18HE and 12AP rounds. I am also thinking that Russian anti-tank rifles don't have a hope in hell of knocking a Tiger II out even at point blank range with a rear shot. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt.Squarehead Posted January 23, 2022 Share Posted January 23, 2022 8 minutes ago, CanuckGamer said: I am also thinking that Russian anti-tank rifles don't have a hope in hell of knocking a Tiger II out even at point blank range with a rear shot. Nope, but they could effectively blind it and scare the bejesus out of the commander too, if they were good (& brave & lucky). Soviet anti-tank rifles were never really for tanks, by 1939 the Soviets were making tanks with armour a lot thicker than anything Germany had.....But a 14.5mm AP round will go through the gunshield or hull of a Sd.Kfz.251 like a hot knife through butter. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted January 26, 2022 Share Posted January 26, 2022 I recently lost a King Tiger to an American 57mm AT gun... frontally. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted January 26, 2022 Share Posted January 26, 2022 1 hour ago, Bulletpoint said: I recently lost a King Tiger to an American 57mm AT gun... frontally. That sucker has a few tungsten rounds. Not really a surprise. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Artkin Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 21 hours ago, Bulletpoint said: I recently lost a King Tiger to an American 57mm AT gun... frontally. How? A hit to the cupola? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckdyke Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 22 hours ago, Bulletpoint said: I recently lost a King Tiger to an American 57mm AT gun... frontally. Lower Hull Frontal has 100 mm armor which can be penetrated by US Munitions to 500 meters. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bulletpoint Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 1 hour ago, Artkin said: How? A hit to the cupola? No, a hit to the upper front of the turret. The sloping part that goes from the mantlet up to the cupola. Just where there's a metal loop. I think the game engine decided that since the shot hit the loop, it somehow negated the slope effect. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Joch Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 (edited) I ran some tests in CMFB before Xmas. The King Tiger is very difficult to KO from the front, but U.S. 57mm and 76mm AP will easily penetrate the side hull armor at 600 meters. Edited January 27, 2022 by Sgt Joch 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Joch Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 On 1/23/2022 at 12:08 PM, dbsapp said: If I remember correctly, both King Tiger and Panther had the same side armor. not in game, Panther has weaker side armour, even regular U.S. 75mm AP can KO a Panther from the sides at 600 meters. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt Joch Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 On 1/23/2022 at 12:06 PM, Sgt.Squarehead said: German armour appears to have gone downhill a lot earlier than is widely believed (ie: German armour plate was deemed unacceptable to the Soviets when they were cooperating pre-1941). As I recall, it was the quality of the armour plate that was in question and this was due to the materials, mostly a result of persistent shortage of ingredients, like certain precious metals. There has been discussion as to the actual impact out in the field. When the US/UK carried out trials on Panthers in summer 44, they found some armour plates were brittle and some held up well. As I remember, this is factored in game in the German armor protection level. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted January 27, 2022 Share Posted January 27, 2022 (edited) On 1/23/2022 at 12:08 PM, dbsapp said: If I remember correctly, both King Tiger and Panther had the same side armor. Absolutely not. Breakthrough tanks, or heavy tanks, have strong side and rear armor. Medium tanks only have a strong shield to the front and thin armor everywhere else. Specifically, Tigers have 80-82mm side armor, Panther has 40mm (which is quite good for a medium tank). Edited January 27, 2022 by Redwolf 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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