laurent 22 Posted December 7, 2021 Share Posted December 7, 2021 Problem with the Firefly crew: the commander stays almost inside. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kohlenklau Posted December 8, 2021 Share Posted December 8, 2021 (edited) Hey, the CMBN Firefly mdr file in Blender seemed he was up more in the turret, Z =1.13030 vs Z=.9267, that is about 8 inches and maybe is the reason? So please download and put this in your CMFI z folder and let me know if the issue goes away... Maybe I am full of baloney or maybe it will work. Sometimes a newer mdr gets messed up but the older mdr from another title is aok. https://www.dropbox.com/s/a4wfbx5vs28doo6/sherman-vc.mdr?dl=0 Edited December 8, 2021 by kohlenklau 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurent 22 Posted December 8, 2021 Author Share Posted December 8, 2021 (edited) It works! Thanks you so much Edited December 8, 2021 by laurent 22 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted December 8, 2021 Share Posted December 8, 2021 Just got this myself. Thanks Phil! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurent 22 Posted February 22, 2022 Author Share Posted February 22, 2022 aaargll! same problem with Tiger: Tiger CMFI 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwolf Posted February 22, 2022 Share Posted February 22, 2022 Trying to draw out the snipahs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kohlenklau Posted February 23, 2022 Share Posted February 23, 2022 On 2/22/2022 at 8:48 AM, laurent 22 said: same problem with Tiger: ok, I am still at work but later we can try the same trick by bringing the mdr file over from another title. Please report which specific Tiger it is... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kohlenklau Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 (edited) I did a test and it seems to be the CMFI Tiger mid version that has this "tank commander is too low in hatch" issue. standby... I checked CMRT and the CMRT Tiger mid version did NOT have this "tank commander is too low in hatch" issue... I offer this as a solution for CMFI so here are the 3 CMRT Tiger mid version mdr files to plop into CMFI z. (the main mdr and lod-2 and lod-4.) I did the plopping and it seems to be ok and the CMFI "tank commander is too low in hatch" issue with Tiger mid version is gone. https://www.dropbox.com/sh/kbjn6y5yoej6n74/AACJAvjNVJNQvgtOnmywtG-ja?dl=0 Edited February 24, 2022 by kohlenklau 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurent 22 Posted February 24, 2022 Author Share Posted February 24, 2022 That 's work again! thank you, you are the best ! Tigers After checking the other tanks, the last one with the same problem is the ShermanII : Sherman II The French helmet is badly positioned on the head. I drew in the attached image the desired position. I have Blender and I followed your instructions, given in other posts, to manipulate mdr files but I don't know how to go about it. French helmet 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kohlenklau Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 (edited) ...standby...ma'am, please put your feet in the stirrups and I will investigate. OK, I think in CMBN the Sherman II behaves properly no issue with the tank commander. But I only saw the main mdr and no lod-2 and lod-4. I offer here the CMBN Sherman II mdr file to put in CMFI z and which solves the CMFI Sherman II "tank commander is too low in hatch" issue... https://www.dropbox.com/sh/nnbm0mw6zlkmyi8/AAAtiLH6y8N99XL57tDnAWXRa?dl=0 Edited February 24, 2022 by kohlenklau 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kohlenklau Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 (edited) 2 hours ago, laurent 22 said: The French helmet is badly positioned on the head. I drew in the attached image the desired position. I have Blender and I followed your instructions, given in other posts, to manipulate mdr files but I don't know how to go about it. This will cost you some Champagne or Camembert. Give me a week or so...<I measured it needs tilted 19 degrees> Edited February 24, 2022 by kohlenklau 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurent 22 Posted February 24, 2022 Author Share Posted February 24, 2022 It works of course! Sherman II fixed I am sorry but the Food and Drugs Administration prohibits the importation of wine, champagne and any other alcoholic beverage by La Poste, and the camembert will not support the trip Instead, Will you marry me ? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kohlenklau Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 1 hour ago, laurent 22 said: Instead, Will you marry me ? I am already married but merci for the proposal...(?) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kohlenklau Posted February 24, 2022 Share Posted February 24, 2022 oh well, no Camembert, no Champagne, No Bardot, No Remy Martin ...but here is the helmet... https://www.dropbox.com/sh/vag5iuopkchywfj/AACAI_DTDpWzwb9qe6SiTnzIa?dl=0 The chinstrap was before ALREADY a bit low and is now still low but the tilt of the Adrian helmet is now better. Check it out... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurent 22 Posted February 24, 2022 Author Share Posted February 24, 2022 Well done, you are my hero! Adrian helmet fixed Thank you very much ! 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurent 22 Posted March 31, 2023 Author Share Posted March 31, 2023 Dear @Kolhenklau, we tested with others your mod/fix of the tanks commanders position in their open turret (Tiger mid, Sherman II, Firefly V): The effects aren't only visual. - Without the mod, the tanks commanders are rarely hit by the enemy (unless the enemy is at the same height or above). - With the mod the losses are the same as with the others, they are often hit. It is difficult to test whether the tank commander sees better with or without. Conclusion: The PBEM are disturbed by these mods. This problem must be reported to @Battlefront.com. I'm not sure but it seems the mod works for both players even if one of them doesn't have it. These mods don't give benefits to players but they are necessary, I don't want to uninstall them. - If the player whith mod starts the PBEM, the mod works for both of them for the whole game. - If the player withtout the mod starts the PBEM, the mod doesn't work for either player. It would therefore be necessary for BF.C to officially correct this problem so that everyone is equal. Some mods with the "ani" files also break tactical AI and PBEM, but they aren't necessary. You can see the discussion here: http://www.thefewgoodmen.com/thefgmforum/threads/round-two.35956/post-345533 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 33 minutes ago, laurent 22 said: Conclusion: The PBEM are disturbed by these mods. This problem must be reported to @Battlefront.com. I'm not sure but it seems the mod works for both players even if one of them doesn't have it. These mods don't give benefits to players but they are necessary, I don't want to uninstall them. How is this a problem for BFC to fix? Should they prevent the game from running if there are animation or model mods? If the mods don't give benefits why do you believe they are necessary? 33 minutes ago, laurent 22 said: - If the player whith mod starts the PBEM, the mod works for both of them for the whole game. - If the player withtout the mod starts the PBEM, the mod doesn't work for either player. It would therefore be necessary for BF.C to officially correct this problem so that everyone is equal. Sounds like both players are equal. This is behaving as expected. In Combat Mission, for PBEM, one player's machine calculates the game turn and all that happens. Then both players see the action as calculated. The expectation is that what happened will match what both players see. The fact that one player has different animation or model mods is not something that was planned for and changing that will be challenging - only allow PBEM partners who have the same mods to play? How will that be achieved and what support issues will that generate? 33 minutes ago, laurent 22 said: Some mods with the "ani" files also break tactical AI and PBEM, but they aren't necessary. You can see the discussion here: http://www.thefewgoodmen.com/thefgmforum/threads/round-two.35956/post-345533 I agree we should not be playing with these mods. They effect the game and is sounds like in a few cases it effects them in an odd way that I would not have expected (talking about the tac AI movement delays). That means these mods should not be used by anyone. I'm not sure if we want the game to be rejecting some mods over others or if we really want the expense of the games comparing mods and rejecting mismatches. That would mean I could not play with my icon mod if you are not. That sounds like a terrible experience. Even if we restrict it to animation and model mods there is still an additional negotiation that would have to happen between players to verify that they are using the same models and animations. That is a ton of work, will slow things down and introduce a lot of potential for support issues and bugs. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waffelmann Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 4 minutes ago, IanL said: How is this a problem for BFC to fix? I think he means correcting the TC positions. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 20 minutes ago, waffelmann said: I think he means correcting the TC positions. Ah that is something that should be fixed if the TCs are too high. I'll have to check if that is already reported or not. I thought he was talking about the differing mods issue. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waffelmann Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 6 minutes ago, IanL said: if the TCs are too high When I look at the pictures, the TCs are not too high, but too low.... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kohlenklau Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 (edited) A MISUNDERSTANDING IS HAPPENING I THINK. To me the initial point is that BFC ships the game with the 3D model having a Tank commander too low. Agreed or disagreed? Why does it get out the door like that? Anyway, so, we are the customers and see a problem. We report it or try to. BFC or a representative such as Ian @IanL who we do appreciate, says it is now on a list and will be fixed some time as they select due to their limited time. Forum folks are trying on their own to fix it and make an effort. Somebody notices the customer fix has ramifications. We report the curious ramifications up the chain to BFC. Maybe the words "BFC must do something" is not exactly intended. Maybe it is more like.."Wow, this is interesting. A mod that slightly fixes a 3D issue SEEMS to have combat results impact on getting sniped. Any comment from the developer?" Maybe we could expect. a. it is an illusion. your data cannot be correct. TC is hard coded as "X exposed no matter where he is during "Unbuttoned" b. uh oh, don't mess with it. wait for our 3D fix. I am not sure if I am correct but I think I am. @laurent 22 N'cest pas? EDIT: in some high stakes tournament it is possible somebody could or definitely could(?) take advantage of this and win a PBEM unfairly. I guess it depends on who loads first? Ian feels this issue is outside BFC's role. Cheaters are out there. BFC cannot have counter-measures in place to stop every form of cheating. But they should be aware of every issue. so, a new one. c. ok, issue acknowledged, we have no official reply except, be careful of cheaters! Edited March 31, 2023 by kohlenklau 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurent 22 Posted March 31, 2023 Author Share Posted March 31, 2023 Yes when I ask BF.C to edit a new patch, it was only about the position of the tank commanders (indeed they are not too high, in the game without mods they disappear in their open turret). It's time to talk about it because BF.C is preparing a new battlepack that will either be included in Engine 5 or in a patch. LanL,you're probably right, the players are evenly matched since the game either loads mods for both or doesn't load them for both. I don't have certainty, I observed this behavior in AI in my PBEM with Hilts, but it was with the mod concerned "ani" (animation) files. I deduced that the problem must also exist with the "mdr" files (3D object, position in space) therefore with the tank commanders' mods. Not all mods with "ani" or "mdr" files have the same effect on the tactical AI. Example of an "ani" file whose effect is neutral: the tilted head of the halftrack gunner, or the one that changes the position of the gunner's arms lying on the ground. Example of "mdr" file whose effect is neutral: fitted French and English helmets. These mods weren't created to get a benefit in AI calculated results, but to look better. "Bmp" mods are neutral and can't disturb a pbem because the AI doesn't care. Regarding mods fixing tanks commander and their effect on a PBEM: one of the players, the one who has not installed the mod, may be in the dark that the mod works and changes the results of shots. For this reason and in order to remove all doubts, I think that BF.C must produce an official patch which takes over the Kolhenklau mod. Unless the original tank commander position is wanted by BF.C, but I doubt it. Nevertheless the question deserves to be asked, for example I presented the Kolhenklau mod adjusting the English helmet on the head as a repair. @Erwin made a pertinent remark: "it seems that it was normal for it to be a bit higher than one needs to account for the helmet lining". So this mod would not correct a defect but only show another version of how to wear this helmet (I prefer the version of Kohlenklau). Sorry Kohlenklau, our posts have crossed. I agree with you. Now I take into account the priorities of BF.C who doesn't have 10 arms to repair everything quickly. Fixed bugs remain minor, so there is no rush. On the other hand I am worried about the effect of future mods on the tactical AI. The mod that caused slowdowns in my PBEM with Hits was modifying the animation of the gestures the soldier does to reload. It was a mod included with the one that changed the position of the arms and the head of the halftrack gunner (Sdkfz 251d infantry kneel). I hadn't realized I had those files because I was only interested in the halftrack gunner. I deleted those files since. I can't remember who created them, I don't know if he made other versions, but he must know that the tactical AI takes them into account. I remember you asked Steve the question directly here, and it seems he didn't have a concrete answer. But we have more elements to answer since. https://community.battlefront.com/topic/142199-annual-look-at-the-year-to-come-2023/?do=findComment&comment=1975274 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 OK I see. I may have not twigged to the fact that you guys are trying to fix a bug here. So, I know that BFC wants to fix bugs. I realize that some people have pointed out it doesn't happen fast. Sure I can understand that feeling sometimes. In the end I think there are two issues: 1) For clarity for me (and any other tester) can you point me to where the bugs were reported for these issues. I care about the bugs and getting them reported. I do not care about hacked models that people propose as a fix. Sorry not trying to sound harsh but the fact of the matter is all I can do is report bugs and remind people they exist. Other people fix them and they will do their own thing. They may or may not be reported already. If they are not I will report them. I'm on theBlitz, the Steam forums and The Few Good Men so links to threads here there or anywhere is all I'm looking for. Yes, I read many many threads here but I do not have enough time to reproduce every bug like thing that gets talked about. The vast, vast majority of things people complain about are not bugs at all so I've given up chasing stuff that just gets mentioned and is not clear. I spend my time testing things myself or chasing issues that sound suspicious to me. Now you guys have done way more than that most on this topic so I'm paying attention now I cannot speak for other testers but I am pretty sure they don't have time to chase ghosts on forums either. 2) Regarding people using mods that change behaviour. I have no idea how much effort BFC would want to invest on that topic. That would be very much a separate thing so lets start with a list of reports from #1 I know I can get those reported. As for protecting us from rouge mods I'll have a chat with Steve and let him know about these discussions and leave it him to ponder. That issue is way above my pay grade here. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
laurent 22 Posted March 31, 2023 Author Share Posted March 31, 2023 "I do not care about hacked models that people propose as a fix" I hope you care about hacked models that Kohlenklau propose as a fix (I know you are). "can you point me to where the bugs were reported for these issues." So, bug about tank commander are in this thread (and Adrian helmet). Kohlenklau fixed in RT the 3D model Pz III G (a Pz out of alignment everywhere), in CW The 3D model of all Patton (wheel wasn't rolling). About PIIG fixed by Kohlenklau here: Kohlenklau fixed it before the last RT patch. The patch don't fix it... (nobody solved the problem of the soldiers riding pz 3G inside the tank, post in the thread linked) This time an important bug that others and I have noticed during our pbem: magic jumps here (with an internal link): Another small graphic bug in RT corrected by Jace 11 by working on "mdr" files because the name of elements missing (panther VD late): another graphic bug by the same guy in BS: Like you, I'm not able to list all reported bugs, and I've found that sometimes bugs aren't bugs or are reported incorrectly, for example without screenshots. I'm lucky because the ones I report have either already been reported or have been fixed by our friends. I recently noticed that animation mods can change the behavior of the AI and especially that these mods interact in a pbem, even when one of the players does not have them installed. It is useful that BF.c is informed in this regard. I don't expect any fixes regarding these mods, and don't want BF.C to restrict access to "mdr" and "ani" files. It is useful that the community of modders is informed about this so that they are aware of the consequences in a PBEM of their work. The mods in this thread are in a different category. They are fixing a bug. They are installed in our mod folders like the others, whereas their proper place would be in a native "brz" file because they are essential. Especially since I am surprised to see that they modify the behavior of the AI in a PBEM (tank commanders more vulnerable or not). I don't know what is BF.C's strategy regarding the treatment of these bugs: do they consider that they are solved by the members and that they don't need to edit a new patch (like for pz IIIG) ? I understand this point of view, because the solutions offered by Kohlenklau and Jace11 save them valuable time. The time that the very small BF.c teams don't spend fixing this bug, they can spend it developing other things expected by the CM community. Good for them, good for me in fine. But perhaps it would be fair to reward Kohlenklau and Jace11 for that time saved, time =money. While Kohlenklau and Jace11 say these repairs are easy, they take time. Regarding the commander bug, the Kohlenklau fix is essential because it doesn't only affect the visual aspect but also the game engine. If BF.C doesn't include these fixes in an upcoming FI patch, there will have a risk of confusion between players who have installed the Kohlenklau patch and those who have not installed it, maybe Civil War, Apocalypse or Judgment Day! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted March 31, 2023 Share Posted March 31, 2023 Thanks I'll look for each of these and make sure they are in the list. Thanks 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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