AFV price changes v1.01 -> v1.02

[Bufo]

As title says, all prices are for outside of formation vehicles (so single vehicles to be added).

Edited November 22, 2021 by Bufo

[Bufo]

Previously I forgot to change the experience, motivation, etc. levels to standard values, so prices were wrong. Here's the correct table:

[Lethaface]

298 for BMP-2 vs 287 for a Bradley seems a bit out of order imo (with Bradley having FLIR optics and better armour).

[Bufo]

All prices are for year 1980 (some vehicles' prices change every year which may be a bug).

@Lethaface I agree.

Edited November 22, 2021 by Bufo

[Bufo]

42 minutes ago, Lethaface said:

298 for BMP-2 vs 287 for a Bradley seems a bit out of order imo (with Bradley having FLIR optics and better armour).

Bradley also has a dedicated commander. Once you make the carried soldiers disembark from a BMP-2 it becomes much less effective, and also completely blind to one of it's sides.

[Rinaldi]

Is that offset by a sharp rarity cost for the Bradley versus the BMP?

[Bufo]

19 minutes ago, Rinaldi said:

Is that offset by a sharp rarity cost for the Bradley versus the BMP?

Cost represents combat value. Rarity cost represents how many were available at given time frame. 

[THH149]

Cost for Bradley M2 = cost for Bradley M3? Interesting! I'll take a butchers dozen of M3s thanks...

[Rinaldi]

48 minutes ago, Bufo said:

Cost represents combat value. Rarity cost represents how many were available at given time frame. 

I'm well aware. You don't answer the question. 

[Bufo]

17 minutes ago, Rinaldi said:

I'm well aware. You don't answer the question. 

I answered, the two are different things and one cannot counter the other. Even more so that you can turn rarity completely off.

[Rinaldi]

I disagree, the two are intimately related and the obvious solution is don't play low rarity games. I just don't see an issue, frankly.

A M2 costing about as much as a BMP means nothing if you can get 15 of the latter but only 4 of the former with standard rarity. 

Edited November 22, 2021 by Rinaldi

[Lethaface]

17 minutes ago, Rinaldi said:

I disagree, the two are intimately related and the obvious solution is don't play low rarity games. I just don't see an issue, frankly.

A M2 costing about as much as a BMP means nothing if you can get 15 of the latter but only 4 of the former with standard rarity. 

That would indeed mitigate the impact of any potential pricing imparity.

However taken at face value I'd value the capability of the Bradley (even the 1980 version, not the CMSF2/CMBS versions) much higher than a BMP-2, so it is strange in my opinion that they are priced similar or the Bradley a bit cheaper even. The rarity costs should govern the rarity of a vehicle, not points which reflect the combat power of an asset. 

[Lethaface]

Adding:
The M1 Abrams costs 494 points, which is significantly more than a T-80B. Which is fair imo, considering it's combat power. It would be strange if the M1 would be cheaper than the T-80B but had a rarity cost offset in place to mitigate that.

[The_MonkeyKing]

What are these prices even supposed to reflect? 

[Grey_Fox]

1 minute ago, The_MonkeyKing said:

What are these prices even supposed to reflect? 

They're arbitrary.

[Rinaldi]

14 minutes ago, Lethaface said:

That would indeed mitigate the impact of any potential pricing imparity.

However taken at face value I'd value the capability of the Bradley (even the 1980 version, not the CMSF2/CMBS versions) much higher than a BMP-2, so it is strange in my opinion that they are priced similar or the Bradley a bit cheaper even. The rarity costs should govern the rarity of a vehicle, not points which reflect the combat power of an asset. 

See, I'm not a confident in that as the rest of you are. It's a far more even contest in 1982. The Bradley in game iirc can only carry 6 men (which clearly factors into pricing), and the 30mm on the BMP-2 should - and will, in my experience - eat a CW era M2's bottom from any feasible ranges. In terms of sensor-to-shooter the Bradley clearly has the edge, but that's about it. 

 

[Bufo]

45 minutes ago, Rinaldi said:

I just don't see an issue, frankly.

Many people can't see an issue, and wouldn't even if Battlefront put 10.000 points for a BMP-2.

Combat value has nothing to do with how many of those they had in 1980.

Edited November 22, 2021 by Bufo

[Rinaldi]

And there it is, sour grapes always comes bubbling forth lmao. A fine vintage. It takes an incredible level of pig-headedness, and probably lack of tactical acumen, to judge the combat worth of an AFV only by gun/optics/armour. Try being better with your equipment. 

Edited November 22, 2021 by Rinaldi

[Bufo]

5 minutes ago, Rinaldi said:

And there it is, sour grapes always comes bubbling forth lmao. A fine vintage. 

If I made a topic during v1.01 about why the Bradley costs more, you would have said the same thing. "I don't see an issue". There goes your logic out the window.

And you don't have to be afraid, nobody wanted to hurt your precious game, you can stop crying now.

Edited November 22, 2021 by Bufo

[Lethaface]

21 minutes ago, Rinaldi said:

See, I'm not a confident in that as the rest of you are. It's a far more even contest in 1982. The Bradley in game iirc can only carry 6 men (which clearly factors into pricing), and the 30mm on the BMP-2 should - and will, in my experience - eat a CW era M2's bottom from any feasible ranges. In terms of sensor-to-shooter the Bradley clearly has the edge, but that's about it. 

 

More even compared to CMSF2/CMBS yes. But the Bradley will still have BMP-2 for breakfast and lunch, at least in the one game I played with them. Better optics, FLIR, smoke which the enemy can't see through but the Bradley can, ITOW and a 25mm gun which can go through the BMP-2 with ease.

Now the BMP-2 30mm probably wont much issue punching holes in the Bradley, nor does it's ATGM. But on a 1v1 basis it will lose the majority of duels imo. Granted I haven't done any representative tests but if I'd had to hazard a guess it will be closer to 100% than to 50%.

The BMP-2 can carry 8 men, although one of those is the vehicle commander (leaving 2 crew), while the Bradley has a dedicated vehicle commander and 3 crew total. So that's either 1 or 2 men difference, depending on how you count.

Overall it probably won't have much impact on QBs, unless rarity is fully off (given the Bradley costs 2000 rarity points even in 1982). 

But still it just looked odd in my eyes seeing the Bradley cheaper than the BMP-2.

Edited November 22, 2021 by Lethaface

[Rinaldi]

7 minutes ago, Bufo said:

If I made a topic during v1.01 about why the Bradley costs more, you would have said the same thing. "I don't see an issue". There goes your logic out the window.

And you don't have to be afraid, nobody wanted to hurt your precious game, you can stop crying now.

Just be better at the game Bufo. You'll thank me for this advice later. 

 

4 minutes ago, Lethaface said:

More even compared to CMSF2/CMBS yes. But the Bradley will still have BMP-2 for breakfast and lunch, at least in the one game I played with them. Better optics, FLIR, smoke which the enemy can't see through but the Bradley can, ITOW and a 25mm gun which can go through the BMP-2 with ease.

Now the BMP-2 30mm probably wont much issue punching holes in the Bradley, nor does it's ATGM. But on a 1v1 basis it will lose the majority of duels imo. Granted I haven't done any representative tests but if I'd had to hazard a guess it will be closer to 100% than to 50%.

The BMP-2 can carry 8 men, although one of those is the vehicle commander (leaving 2 crew), while the Bradley has a dedicated vehicle commander and 3 crew total. So that's either 1 or 2 men difference, depending on how you count.

Overall it probably won't have much impact on QBs, unless rarity is fully off (given the Bradley costs 2000 rarity points even in 1982). 

But still it just looked odd in my eyes seeing the Bradley cheaper than the BMP-2.

Good points, and fair enough. 

[Lethaface]

44 minutes ago, The_MonkeyKing said:

What are these prices even supposed to reflect? 

Purchase points are only described as purchase points in the manual. But on forum / elsewhere I've always seen them explained as an approximation of the 'combat power' of a unit.

Rarity points are addressed in the manual:

"Rarity - Rarity determines the degree real life historical availability factors into unit purchases. The choices are Strict, Standard, Loose, or None. See the Purchase Forces section later in this chapter for details about the Rarity purchase system."

"The amount of uncommon units allowed for purchasing can be restricted if desired. “Strict” keeps unit purchases almost exclusively to common units, “None” has no restrictions at all. “Standard” approximates actual availability for that particular month, “Loose” is more generous than that."

 

 

Edited November 22, 2021 by Lethaface

[Redwolf]

Rinaldi, if one has to "play better" to win with unit <x> because of the pricing, then maybe the price isn't great, no?

[madrak_the_red]

The prices are nominal 'combat power' as discussion above (apparently you can't delete a comment? Whoops)

Edited November 22, 2021 by madrak_the_red

[Rinaldi]

Homies be like "why would the points system do this to my BMPs?" Then handle them in combat like this

Edited November 22, 2021 by Rinaldi