Advice on the new game\campaign needed

[dbsapp]

Want to share some thoughts on gameplay in general and ask for advice which CM game to play next.

I stumbled upon Combat Mission games by accident while browsing through Steam suggestions. I never heard about these series before, despite having cheeked all the necessary toolboxes (hardcore sims and wargames). At first, I bought Combat Mission Black Sea and really fell in love with it. It seemed that the game contained almost everything I like (and I put the blame of some things that I didn't appreciate on my inexperience). In my opinion back then the "Going to Town" scenario was almost perfect example of tactical gameplay. 

I played through both of the Russian campaigns and found them equally fascinating. I also appreciated the first US campaign in CMBS. 

After that I decided to go further and bought CM Red Thunder. At first, I was really disappointed, because the quality of original campaigns (it's my personal humble opinion of course) was no match with CMBS. But it helped me to discover the large pile of community made scenarios for CMRT, that truly made the game shine. Later I found out that so called "training campaign" in CMRT was not "basic training stuff" and is quite interesting, being thing that all the original campaigns in CMRT should be. 

I'm glad that devs fixed it in Fire and Rubble expansion. All the stuff, including missions, campaigns etc., in CMFR is really enjoyable and in my opinion holds my "golden standard" of CMBS. 

I've also bought CM Cold War, since I'm really fond of the history and military technology of this period. I began with Soviet training scenarios, which were quite nice, tried NTC and Soviet campaigns... Well, everything what I'm saying here is merely my personal opinion and maybe I'm wrong, but... hm... Let's say it this way - I don't get it, it's definitely not my cup of tea. On the bright side of life there are some good single missions out there. I hope that for the expansion pack they will try something, as Monty Python put it, "completely different".  

So my question is - after these overstretched introduction - what CM game I should play next?  

I prefer small to medium size battles that require some tactical maneuvering, not the blunt  and tedious march through the enemy lines that has 10x more units than you. Judging from my experience, the difficulty level in some CM games could be unrealistic (in my view) and artificially hard (or maybe I'm noob, whatever).  I would like to play something more natural, where attackers have at least some advantage over those who they attack. 

The number of units under your command is also an important consideration. I have an impression that initially CM was created not for "battalion size" battles, but for something about the company size. Nor game engine, nor UI are suited for the gameplay with big number of units. 

Suggestions are welcome. 

 

 

[Vacillator]

I'm exclusively WW2 titles so I can't comment on the modern stuff (but then you already have most of that, except perhaps SF2?).

Order of my purchases versus how much I have played them so far (bearing in mind I only started just over a year ago though):

• RT bought 1st, played 2nd-most (now including FR of course)
• BN bundle bought 2nd, played 1st-most
• FI bundle bought 3rd, played least but no good reason for this
• FB bought last played 3rd-most

You have RT/FR, so if I was you (which I'm not of course, preferences vary ) - I would go for BN next, then FB, then FI.  However, in terms of amount of content, you may prefer to go BN, FI and FB.  I say this because BN has the most content and covers everything you described, FI has a lot and its very varied, and FB has the least (but I like it).

If, like me, you will end up with them all, then it's just a matter of finding enough time to play them all - I never have enough time to give justice to all of them.

[Heirloom_Tomato]

My usual answer to this question is to pick the game that appeals the most to you and buy it. 

If that doesn't help, then just buy the CMFI big bundle. This will give you the most variety of weather, terrain, nations and TO&E within nations of any CM title. I enjoyed the scenarios and the tactical challenges they present but I love the wild sandbox opportunities the quick battles and scenario editor also give you.

[Sgt Joch]

Note there are free demos for all the games so you can try them out before you buy.

Edited July 7, 2021 by Sgt Joch

[Monty's Mighty Moustache]

Fortress Italy doesn't get a lot of love but it's right up there for me as one of my favourites (along with Red Thunder) with all the bundles. The sheer variety of units, the timescale (1943 all the way to war's end) and the different equipment available as time progresses (no organic AT for the Germans), the number of nationalities represented and the variety of terrain makes it a fascinating theatre to play in.

But as Sgt Joch says there are demos, so give them a try.

It is worth noting however that Shock Force 2 is currently on sale, that's an insane amount of content for that price and if you like Black Sea you'll like this, it's a different type of warfare though, but very interesting (I just bought it myself, couldn't resist the price). https://www.battlefront.com/shock-force-2/cmsf2-big-bundle/

MMM

[Erwin]

2 hours ago, dbsapp said:

I prefer small to medium size battles that require some tactical maneuvering, not the blunt  and tedious march through the enemy lines that has 10x more units than you.

This has nothing to do with the game title, simply the concept of a specific designer for his specific scenario.  What you need to ask for is a list of the best scenarios and campaigns across all titles.

2 hours ago, dbsapp said:

I would like to play something more natural, where attackers have at least some advantage over those who they attack. 

Probably CMSF2 features western "Blue" forces which usually have a huge advantage over the "Red" forces.  The challenge in CMSF2 is to win with minimal, if any, casualties.  The player has to focus on and master good tactics.  Many scenarios in all games tend to hamstring the player in order to create a challenging/entertaining game.  But, often that hamstringing of the player's units seems unrealistic in terms of what happened (mostly ) in RL.  The best designers make the effort to create an AI enemy strategy that is cunning rather than simply relying on large numbers forcing one to attack at 1:1 or worse odds.

2 hours ago, dbsapp said:

I have an impression that initially CM was created not for "battalion size" battles,

That was back in 2013 when CMSF1 was released.  Since then computers have become more powerful and scenarios featuring Regimental-sized formations are now possible (altho' rare).  Battalion-sized is now common.

The other question is which side do you enjoy playing.  If you like playing the Germans you'll want to choose games that feature the best German scenarios and campaigns.  If you want to play the Italians, that means CMFI.  All WW2 CM titles are set in the late-war era.  That is a problem as it generally means that the emphasis is on the Allies.   It seems that most players these days seem to prefer playing the Allies and good German scenarios and campaigns are harder to find - with some notable exceptions from some good designers who also prefer playing the Germans.  The xnt large (Regimental-sized) scenario "Mission to Maas" in CMFB is a good example of a German attack scenario that plays like a campaign.

[mjkerner]

It's all good, man!

[BornGinger]

4 hours ago, dbsapp said:

So my question is - after these overstretched introduction - what CM game I should play next? 

Have you played all scenarios and some of the quick battles you have in the three games you already bought? Have you played any pbem-battles in the games you already bought? If your answer to those two questions is No, why get a new game when you have enough to do in the ones you already have?

Edited July 7, 2021 by BornGinger

[Bozowans]

What exactly was it you didn't like about Cold War? And the original campaigns for CMRT? Is it just too many units with too much going on and no other reason? The campaigns for CMRT were pretty huge. I liked them but I remember it being a pain sometimes to move all the units around. I enjoy huge battles but I have to be in the right mood to play them.

You sound like you would like CMSF2. You are good with modern warfare since you liked Black Sea and you like small and medium-sized battles, so CMSF2 sounds about right. The maps are usually smaller than the other CM games and you mostly get platoon to company-sized scenarios. Shock Force 1 was the first game they made with that engine, and the engine could not handle large maps back then. IIRC, CMRT was the first time that larger maps (and thus larger battles) were allowed in the engine. SF2 just takes all the original smaller scenarios and campaigns from SF1 and upgrades them with the better engine and new AI plans and whatnot, so it can still be very fun. It also has a ridiculous amount of content. 

For WW2, I might suggest CMBN. It also has a lot of smaller maps and smaller battles. The hedgerow fighting can feel like a bunch of small, self-contained little tactical puzzles to solve more than the huge slugfests that you sometimes get in the other titles. It also has Market Garden as a bonus.

Edited July 8, 2021 by Bozowans

[dbsapp]

Thank you everybody for your input.

21 hours ago, Sgt Joch said:

Note there are free demos for all the games so you can try them out before you buy.

I will give it a try.

20 hours ago, Erwin said:

This has nothing to do with the game title, simply the concept of a specific designer for his specific scenario.  What you need to ask for is a list of the best scenarios and campaigns across all titles.

 

You are right! I'm open for suggestions. By the way, I had an impression that German side scenarios outnumber Allied. For example in CMFR there are more German campaigns than Russian.

 

18 hours ago, BornGinger said:

Have you played all scenarios and some of the quick battles you have in the three games you already bought? Have you played any pbem-battles in the games you already bought? If your answer to those two questions is No, why get a new game when you have enough to do in the ones you already have?

But...but.. soulless consumerism?  

22 hours ago, Vacilllator said:

I would go for BN next, then FB, then FI. 

Seems that BN and SF2 are the most probable options (but it will be frustrating to hammer poor Syrians with Abramses).

6 hours ago, Bozowans said:

What exactly was it you didn't like about Cold War? And the original campaigns for CMRT? Is it just too many units with too much going on and no other reason? The campaigns for CMRT were pretty huge. I liked them but I remember it being a pain sometimes to move all the units around. I enjoy huge battles but I have to be in the right mood to play them.

The first, the number of units and maps scale. It takes forever to make a save file. The second, most important, the campaign design seems strange. Maybe I don't understand something, but personally for me is the opposite to the notion of fun and joy.