Rollbahn D Part I, new Campaign

[theforger]

After Lanzerath the Spitze and Spitze Kompanie were in pretty much in continuous action on the 17th. Units that appear to have full rest and supply will be ones rotated into the front.

There is limited rest and resupply available after capturing the fuel dump in Bullingen (mission 6).

Care should be taken on what units lead the assaults as they may have suffered track damage in previous actions or be low on ammo. There is no refit or repair throughout the campaign.

[Erwin]

1 hour and 10 minutes in.  Had a minor US counterattack or hidden US units at the station which cost me another two guys.  But, station is now safely in German hands.  Bringing up HMG's and mortars for direct fire from the vicinity of the station on any spotted enemy.

Noticed a weird C2 issue.  I have two mortar units close to each other from two different platoons.  I also have the Bn HQ close to both.  However, when any HQ tries to select one of them for indirect fire, one is always "Out Of Contact", the other is always selectable.  It always seems to be the same mortar unit.  Have a savegame if anyone wants to look. 

I suspect the C2 system is either weird or doesn't work properly.  Surely having its Bn or its Co HQ next to a mortar should be sufficient for it to be "In Contact".

[theforger]

18 hours ago, MOS:96B2P said:

+1.    Wow.  I just saw this and had to read it a few times to make sure I was understanding it.  About 30 scenarios spread out in three campaigns!?!?  Also it seems like you are attempting to be historically accurate with both maps and TOE.  This is a massive undertaking.  Thank you. 

I really enjoyed your other scenario, Mission to Maas, which in part inspired the CMRT mini-campaign Alarmeinheiten.  I have not had a chance to play Rollbahn yet but both @Bulletpoint and @Erwin, who are veterans of the game, seem to like it.  Those two generally notice EVERYTHING and give valuable feedback so I'm sure this will be another good one.  I look forward to having time to play through this one.  Thanks again. 

It should be pretty straightforward to do a 4th campaign, combining parts 1,2,3 incorporating their feedback. As you said, I am getting really good advice from the guys. Campaign scripting is a whole new level for me.  

[theforger]

1 hour ago, Erwin said:

Noticed a weird C2 issue.  I have two mortar units close to each other from two different platoons.  I also have the Bn HQ close to both.  However, when any HQ tries to select one of them for indirect fire, one is always "Out Of Contact", the other is always selectable.  It always seems to be the same mortar unit.  Have a savegame if anyone wants to look. 

Seems strange. It may be the "wrong" HQ? 

There are elements of 2x battalions. 1st Btn, 2nd Kompanie.

And 2nd Btn 5th Kompanie. Each platoon in the company has its built in light mortar team.

2nd Btn under Major Taubert wasn't overly enamoured with fighting alongside the SS and managed to steer clear after the 17th.

1st Battalion crop up in the 2nd campaign fighting to re-open the supply line to Peiper at Stavelot and  are pictured riding on the King Tigers at Kaiserbaracke.

[Bulletpoint]

20 minutes ago, theforger said:

2nd Btn under Major Taubert wasn't overly enamoured with fighting alongside the SS and managed to steer clear after the 17th.

That's interesting. Because he disagreed with their rampant nazism, or for other reasons?

[chuckdyke]

2 hours ago, Erwin said:

I suspect the C2 system is either weird or doesn't work properly. 

Different game same engine. Regimental HQs in F&R even while standing next to his FO can't order a fire mission. The protocol in the game after the set-up period he can call only one fire mission at the time. This is a little hard to believe at this time of the war. The regimental HQ 104 Guards sits on the IS2. To set up a meaningful C2 in this game is a challenge. 

Edited May 10, 2021 by chuckdyke

[theforger]

30 minutes ago, Bulletpoint said:

That's interesting. Because he disagreed with their rampant nazism, or for other reasons?

I don't know, he may have been protecting himself and/or his men from war crime charges that followed an SS KG assault. Or he may have witnessed atrocities first hand in Honsfeld on the 17th.

I would add this is just from one source and there's conflicting info around Fallshirmjager units with Peiper after the 17th so I wouldn't take anything as definitive.

There's consensus around a company of the 9th Fallshirmjager regiment fighting in Stavelot, but they never reached as far west as Stoumont, from PoW records, that was the z.b.V Fallshirmjager unit.

The "Fallshirmjager" pictured at Poteau after the fight with Task Force Mayes, the morning of the 18th were actually from Knittel's recon unit, Luftwaffe replacements that didn't receive their SS uniforms in time for the offensive. They also arrived just for the photo op with a kreigsberichter and weren't involved in the fire-fight, it was elements of KG Hansen. Then they were ordered back to Kaiserbaracke and onto Stavelot.

[Erwin]

5 hours ago, theforger said:

Seems strange. It may be the "wrong" HQ? 

There are elements of 2x battalions. 1st Btn, 2nd Kompanie.

And 2nd Btn 5th Kompanie. Each platoon in the company has its built in light mortar team.

2nd Btn under Major Taubert wasn't overly enamoured with fighting alongside the SS and managed to steer clear after the 17th.

1st Battalion crop up in the 2nd campaign fighting to re-open the supply line to Peiper at Stavelot and  are pictured riding on the King Tigers at Kaiserbaracke.

I made sure that the mortars and the Bn and Co HQ's are all from the same formation and are a few meters from each other.

The only thing I can think of is that one platoon has lost its platoon HQ.  But, the platoon HQ's are hundreds of meters from the mortars and would be out of contact in any case.  Surely, Bn and Co HQ's have the radios to be in contact with other subordinate HQ's.

Also, the HQ's from the 2nd Co formation can also call on the mortars from 1st Co formation - except for this one mortar.  

Incidentally, I thought that on-map guns from the same formation will share ammo?  The mortars are attached to different platoons, but each pair of mortars are from the same Company.

[Erwin]

Oh, and something else...  During the set-up phase I noticed that dismounted AFV crews are able to mount ANY other tank.  I thought that was not permitted as it could lead to gaminess - like making sure your best crews are in your best tanks etc.  Or, replacing poor crews with good crews from KO'd tanks.

I only tested this during the set-up phase.  Not sure if this is also allowed when the game is underway.

[Bulletpoint]

5 minutes ago, Erwin said:

Oh, and something else...  During the set-up phase I noticed that dismounted AFV crews are able to mount ANY other tank.  I thought that was not permitted as it could lead to gaminess - like making sure your best crews are in your best tanks etc.  Or, replacing poor crews with good crews from KO'd tanks.

I only tested this during the set-up phase.  Not sure if this is also allowed when the game is underway.

It's a bug that has been reported before, but you know how it is with BFC... it takes them ages to patch anything, and then once there's a new game coming out, some of those previous fixes are lost because different branches of code are not updated across the titles.

Edited May 10, 2021 by Bulletpoint

[Bulletpoint]

8 minutes ago, Erwin said:

I made sure that the mortars and the Bn and Co HQ's are all from the same formation and are a few meters from each other.

The only thing I can think of is that one platoon has lost its platoon HQ.  But, the platoon HQ's are hundreds of meters from the mortars and would be out of contact in any case.  Surely, Bn and Co HQ's have the radios to be in contact with other subordinate HQ's.

Also, the HQ's from the 2nd Co formation can also call on the mortars from 1st Co formation - except for this one mortar.  

Incidentally, I thought that on-map guns from the same formation will share ammo?  The mortars are attached to different platoons, but each pair of mortars are from the same Company.

This issue sounds like one I had before. I think in my case, the solution was that it's not enough for the battalion HQ to be near the mortars, It has to go through the entire chain of command, so the mortars have to be in contact with the mortar platoon HQ etc.

Maybe this thread can be of use:

https://www.thefewgoodmen.com/thefgmforum/threads/mortar-out-of-contact-issue.30267/

 

[Erwin]

4 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

mortar platoon HQ - I do not recall any mortar platoon HQ in this mission, the 81mm are part of inf platoons.  I will experiment and bring back other HQ's and see if this unit can be brought back into the C2 net.  However, one would think that having the Bn HQ, the HQ Support unit (does the HQ Support unit even matter for C2?) would be sufficient.  I will try bringing back its Co HQ as well.

Maybe for the purposes of the game and the weird way it handles C2, the platoon HQ is also the mortar HQ?

However...  The other mortars are in C2, and their HQ's are hundreds of meters away and out of contact.  My understanding is that one has to keep a mortar HQ close to the mortar for C2...  The other 3 mortars that are in C2 are close to (only) their respective Bn HQ's.

 

Edited May 10, 2021 by Erwin

[Erwin]

Re the tanks crews being able to swap tanks, that was never possible b4, so it's a bug that has been introduced recently?

[Vanir Ausf B]

No, it's been possible for years. Maybe since the beginning.

Edited May 10, 2021 by Vanir Ausf B

[Erwin]

51 minutes ago, Vanir Ausf B said:

it's been possible for years. Maybe since the beginning.

Definitely not.  I recall numerous threads with people asking for this as a feature and the explanation given why not was that it could encourage gamey behaviour like swapping out poor crews for better ones who had their tanks KO'd.  So, not sure if this is good or bad.  But, wasn't able to this when I first tried - some years ago of course.  So, no idea when this policy changed or if it's a bug.

Problem is that so many things keep changing with many CM2 updates and patches over 13 years, it's hard to remember what to forget or to forget what is no longer there.

The C2 system is a great example as I posted earlier:

mortar platoon HQ - I do not recall any mortar platoon HQ in this mission, the 81mm are part of inf platoons.  I will experiment and bring back other HQ's and see if this unit can be brought back into the C2 net.  However, one would think that having the Bn HQ, the HQ Support unit (does the HQ Support unit even matter for C2?) would be sufficient.  I will try bringing back its Co HQ as well.

Maybe for the purposes of the game and the weird way it handles C2, the platoon HQ is also the mortar HQ?

However...  The other mortars are in C2, and their HQ's are hundreds of meters away and out of contact.  My understanding is that one has to keep a mortar HQ close to the mortar for C2...  The other 3 mortars that are in C2 are close to (only) their respective Bn HQ's.

 

Edited May 10, 2021 by Erwin

[Vergeltungswaffe]

It has been around for quite some time.

Once upon a time, you had to make sure any pbem opponents that you didn't know well weren't buying crack Pz IV's and conscript KT's and switching the crews at the beginning of the battle, and so on.

[Erwin]

14 hours ago, Erwin said:

Mission 4 concluded: AI surrendered with 45 minutes to go.  That was a bit disappointing as I was enjoying my master plan come to fruition.  Maybe do that trick with US reinforcements arriving after the game ends so that the AI doesn't surrender so quickly.  Or, have a few more US defenders.

A very enjoyable mission up to the unexpected surrender.  The map is wonderful, but so little of it gets used, or is useful for accomplishing the objectives.  Can't help think that you are doing too much work creating unnecessarily large maps... Or, larger Axis and US forces with objectives that require one to use most of the map?

Re Mission 5:  Even though I played through to the game end, when Mission 5 came up, the Stummels are still with only the ammo they were left with at the end of Mission 4.  All other units are fully resupplied.  Weird.

 

 

*******  SPOILERS *******

 

I thought there was chance I would be short on time, as I was moving carefully to reduce casualties.  But, it was fairly easy to move along the road with the tanks, backed up by the Stummels and the Wirblewind and SPW's using the HMG's and mortars in a direct fire mode, and blast the enemy out of his foxholes. 

I expected a tough fight along the woods road where the tanks would have been very vulnerable.  But, most enemy positions were in full view and could be destroyed by HE fire.  Suffered total of 13 inf casualties IIRC - primarily around the railway station where I did get surprised by unexpected US forces.

 

[Bulletpoint]

I rarely ever use on-map mortars to call in fire missions through the C2 net.

It seems to take such a long time, and is very prone to get a bad fire mission when the spotter doesn't observe the spotting rounds. Then you waste ammo and even more time cancelling and starting over again.

[Erwin]

Just now, Bulletpoint said:

you waste ammo

This is often true.  Anything under 81mm is probably best in direct fire mode.  But, 81mm and higher are kinda valuable.  But, yes, you want to have more than the 32 rounds the Paras are carrying.  I was hoping that the mortars from the same company would share ammo, but they will not. 

Some mortars are more accurate than others.  However, I also regularly move mortars to as close as is safe and possible as the less range, the more accurate the indirect fire.  And of course you need an HQ or FO who has a good view of the target area.  He cannot just have a small view as he will be lucky to see the spotting rounds... and that is where ammo wastage occurs.

[theforger]

7 hours ago, Erwin said:

 

 

*******  SPOILERS *******

 

I thought there was chance I would be short on time, as I was moving carefully to reduce casualties.  But, it was fairly easy to move along the road with the tanks, backed up by the Stummels and the Wirblewind and SPW's using the HMG's and mortars in a direct fire mode, and blast the enemy out of his foxholes. 

I expected a tough fight along the woods road where the tanks would have been very vulnerable.  But, most enemy positions were in full view and could be destroyed by HE fire.  Suffered total of 13 inf casualties IIRC - primarily around the railway station where I did get surprised by unexpected US forces.

 

This video from Jay Karamales, about 25 minutes in, shows the foxhole positions of the 394th around Buchholz. The previous day elements of the 27th Fusilier Regt, wondered down the railway track and got cut down and routed by the Amis at Buchholz.

[Warts 'n' all]

Mission 4 ended with an Ami surrender. Luckily for me as they still had two bazookas. Unbeknownst to me I'd taken out the Platoon HQ in a torrent of HE and MG fire. O.K. on to Mission 5.

[Erwin]

Mission 5 also looks interesting.  1 hour time limit.  Another good large map - altho' it seems unlikely/unnecessary to use much of it since the main mission is to get the armor off the map like in Mission 3, while the PzGrenadiers attack and hold a group of buildings and touch another objective.   

From the experience of Mission 3 I estimate 25-30 minutes to get to the exit zone assuming no enemy interference.  But, one wants to help 10th PzGren with their assault.  So, I reckon no more than 25 minutes support and then the Spritze armor column has to take off and go hell for leather to the exit zone.

[Erwin]

18 minutes in and am loving Mission 5 so far.  The Spritzer force is wrapping up assisting the SS Grenadiers in taking the "occupy" objective and are about to head off cross country to the exit zone.  I don't know if the Grenadiers appear again with with Stummels in later mission so am cautious about using the Stummels as their ammo has not been replaced since the last mission.  Will have the SS Grenadiers accomplish the "Touch" objective after they have completed clearing the "Occupy" objective.  

Mission 5 shows how much more entertaining Mission 3 could have been with some combat.

[Vergeltungswaffe]

I'm sorry, but every time I read Spritze or Spritzer, all I can see is something like this:

[Erwin]

Well, that's how I am trying to remember the name of the KG lol.

I forgot re highlights of Mission 5 so far:  SS Inf attacks enemy AFV that, after 3 or 4 turns, the inf suddenly notices is sitting right beside it.  Yes, LOS is very poor.  But, in CM all units are completely deaf and cannot hear an AFV engine growling a few meters away.

Also, US inf starting to surrender.  Always very satisfying.  :)

35 minutes to exit, and so far, no enemy ambushes as KG Spritzer speeds cross country.