CM2: Oddities and weird stuff

[Erwin]

Been playing a lot of CMSF2 (latest version) recently and noticed many oddities and eccentricities that may not all be bugs as they may reflect RL or some incompatibility with older scenarios and campaigns.  But, perhaps other players might want to list things that they have encountered in other CM2 titles - WW2 or modern - that don't make sense or are simply weird. 

To start off, here are the CMSF2 items so far:

Re CMSF2 (so far):

1)  Spotting issues.  A two man scout team with no binoculars can spot enemy units at close to 3,000 meters much better than an FO (with super dooper optics tech) or an HQ with binocs.  

2)  Related to item 1) Once can have a scout team, an FO, an HQ, a Jav team etc all in the same location, literally lying on top of each other.  The scout team sees an enemy units - but even after many minutes the other teams cannot see it - they do not communicate.  There is something wrong with the C2 system.

3)  The M1046 TOW Humvee crew can dismount and take the TOW launcher and missile with them.  According to the UI it takes something like 1.7 minutes to deploy the TOW and a lot longer to pack up.  But it never seems to deploy. 

4)  Related to item 2) It is very very hard to use any vehicle mounted ATGM in CM2 as "hull-down" doesn't mean that only the vehicle optics on the roof are exposed.  Instead the top of the vehicle is exposed and can be easily seen and fired at and destroyed.  Without being able to dismount the TOW in this example, it's usually suicidal to attempt to fire the TOW even from a hull-down position.

5)  Same is true for the M707 Humvee and other "Arty Spotting vehicles" with Laser and other high hech on the roof.  All of these cannot be safely used in CM2 "hull-down" as they can be easily seen and destroyed.

6)  The M1114 AGL (Automatic Grenade Launcher) Humvee crew can dismount with the AGL.  However, it must be a spare from the trunk as an AGL remains mounted on the Humvee and can be crewed and operated by another crew or inf team.  Is it correct that the M1114 carries two AGL's?  (Note that the crew of the M1114 with the 50 cal can also dismount and operate it, but in this case the Humvee no longer has the 50 cal mounted.)

7)  HQ's in CMSF2 cannot spot for arty or air.

Heavy arty falling on top of enemy troops often doesn't incapacitate them.  While it's true that shrapnel may miss, the shock wave of a large explosion alone is usually deadly as it can liquefy one's innards.

9)  Several vehicles (including the M1046 TOW Humvee) have quantities of regular ammo eg: 5.56mm etc.  But it seems impossible to acquire any of it.  The crew cannot acquire it, and if you dismount em and mount an inf team, they also cannot acquire any ammo.

 

 

Edited October 26, 2020 by Erwin

[Bulletpoint]

WW2:

Arty falling on top of buildings doesn't penetrate the thin roof to explode inside the building. Troops are safe on the top floor against even 150mm shells.

Bunkers can be taken out quite easily by 75mm HE rounds.

Foxholes and trenches offer little protection.

Flamethrowers are redundant in this game, as there is no defensive position that can't be easily destroyed by 75mm HE direct fire or even small arms in many cases.

You can order any vehicle in the game to go to a location and open fire from there (by giving a target order from the last waypoint). But this does not work with mortar halftracks.

Unbuttoned vehicle crew sits way too high in many cases, looking silly and leaving them needlessly exposed.

[HUSKER2142]

4 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

Foxholes and trenches offer little protection.

I agree, but if you make a trench manually in the editor, it protects better. But unfortunately, such trenches can be done in scenario, but not in QB. Maybe in the future there will be such an opportunity.

[Blazing 88's]

6 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

WW2:

...Foxholes and trenches offer little protection.

 

I am doing a German campaign (CMRT, Iron, WEGO). A platoon of Grenadiers just captured a strip of a forest with multiple foxholes in it. The Grenadiers were performing buddy aid and forming up to move on when I noticed spotting rounds starting to fall around the area. I gave all platoon squads a quick move with hiding orders on a foxhole (what helped were the squads being split or not a full squad because of casualties).

When the barrage arrived all platoon squad members except a lone rifleman (caught running, pixels away from foxhole) survived the 45-sec or so barrage...

So I don't know what to think about the "foxholes and trenches offer little protection argument.", as my squads were all spit or had casualties making them a more compact unit, causing them to be able to all fit in the foxholes. This for sure helped save those virtual souls.

I am rather sure If I would have had full squads doing the same thing, I would have probably had half the platoon wiped out, as half the members or so would not get the protection of the foxhole during the barrage... just chiming in as this just happened to me.

Edited October 27, 2020 by Blazing 88's

[Ithikial_AU]

3 hours ago, Blazing 88's said:

I gave all platoon squads a quick move with hiding orders on a foxhole (what helped were the squads being split or not a full squad because of casualties).

Hide is an order that does more than what it says on the tin. It tells your troops to keep their heads down so is very useful in barrage situations if they are in hard cover. Well except for a direct hit or air bursts. Troops that don't hide will pop their heads up from foxholes and trenches as soon as the suppression lifts which can cause problems if the barrage is lighter or there has not been a nearby impact for a while.

The trade off is you gain protection but lose quite a bit of spotting ability so can be risky if you know there are enemy nearby coming up behind the barrage. A number of times I've kept the bulk of troops hidden but kept a lone fireteam or the platoon HQ as a lookout so they can at least get spots. Even if I don't get solid contacts I'll probably get some general warning of enemy movements if I do this. If you are confident the fire is more a harassment and there are no enemy forces nearby, it's a no brainer to 'hide' your troops until the barrage passes.

[Bulletpoint]

5 hours ago, Blazing 88's said:

survived the 45-sec or so barrage...

So I don't know what to think about the "foxholes and trenches offer little protection argument."

I agree they do give some protection against artillery if you give a hide order. The problem is you need to give that order in a game system where you can only give orders once every 60 seconds. The troops can't just duck down like they would in real life.

Also, if a shell lands close to the troops in the foxholes, they will now be suppressed and 'cowering', which doesn't give them the protection bonus of the foxhole, and at the same time, you lose the ability to give them orders. So because they are trying to hide from artillery, you can't give them the order they need to actually do it. Again leading to more casualties than in a real situation.

[Howler]

7 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

The problem is you need to give that order in a game system where you can only give orders once every 60 seconds.

There are two modes in game: 1) Realtime where you can issue orders every second to your hearts content; and 2) Turn based (WEGO) where you trust the TacAI in 60 second cycles.

The issue seems to be that the TacAI is not behaving as *you* want it to. Personally, I'd be careful what we wished for given the result of  CMBN  v4.00-4.02.

Let's get reacquainted with CMBN before we try to break it again. Please.

Edited October 27, 2020 by Howler

[Bulletpoint]

34 minutes ago, Howler said:

There are two modes in game: 1) Realtime where you can issue orders every second to your hearts content; and 2) Turn based (WEGO) where you trust the TacAI in 60 second cycles.

The issue seems to be that the TacAI is not behaving as *you* want it to. Personally, I'd be careful what we wished for given the result of  CMBN  v4.00-4.02.

Let's get reacquainted with CMBN before we try to break it again. Please.

I'm already quite well acquainted with the game. Maybe when you also get more familiar with it, you will see there's some sense in what I'm saying.

Edited October 27, 2020 by Bulletpoint

[Glubokii Boy]

42 minutes ago, Howler said:

 I'd be careful what we wished for given the result of  CMBN  v4.00-4.02.

Let's get reacquainted with CMBN before we try to break it again. Please.

If BFC finally have gottten the bugs that came with V.4 as well as some other tac AI bugs sorted...such as the wrong door entry bug...i kind of wish that they would take a break from messing with the tac AI...

It seems to be very complicated AND TIMECONSUMING ! Why not spend some time on the simpler things...such as UI changes to the editor ...

BFC please give us more AI groups, timed objectives, reinforcement by trigger and why not also an updated/new AI artillery programing interface...as well as some other UI changes that has been requested in recent years...

The reward for time invested ought to be far greater compared to any futher tweaking of the tac AI...

Edited October 27, 2020 by RepsolCBR

[Howler]

3 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

I'm already quite well acquainted with the game. Maybe when you also get more familiar with it, you will see there's some sense in what I'm saying.

Exactly, I need to get reacquainted with CMBN as the last time BFC "improved" unit behavior - I needed to play SF/SF2/BS and avoided BN for near three years...

It's been good to see units surrender and not run back and forth in disarray towards known enemy positions.

Allow me to enjoy this before we break something else... is all I'm saying. No offense intended.

[Artkin]

#7 on your list is particularly annoying across the titles. Especially CMBS.

[Bulletpoint]

14 hours ago, Howler said:

Exactly, I need to get reacquainted with CMBN as the last time BFC "improved" unit behavior - I needed to play SF/SF2/BS and avoided BN for near three years...

It's been good to see units surrender and not run back and forth in disarray towards known enemy positions.

Allow me to enjoy this before we break something else... is all I'm saying. No offense intended.

Ok, I understand where you're coming from. Of course my intention was never to break anything - I was just explaining the point I made about foxholes above.

[Howler]

4 hours ago, Bulletpoint said:

Ok, I understand where you're coming from. Of course my intention was never to break anything - I was just explaining the point I made about foxholes above.