Flavor Object Random Change

[sburke]

4 hours ago, Sgt.Squarehead said:

Come to think of it, I think I may have noticed this while playing the CM:BS scenario 'BSBP-02 Fort'.....There's a machinery shop type place, with a lot of flavour objects outside, to me it looks like this:

I'm not sure that's exactly what the designer had in mind. 

PS - This scenario has not been modified by myself in any way.....Thus if this is not how it's actually supposed to look, it's probably down to one or other of the patches at a guess. 

PPS - @IanL  This might merit some investigation.

 

I have CMBS v2.10 loaded.  This is not an issue of the patch, it appears this way in 2.10.  My guess is it is just stuff missed from placement during map design.

[Warts 'n' all]

Looks like a Dog Training Course.... "Walkieeeeeeeeeeeeeeesssssssss". (You have to be a Limey to get that one)

[MOS:96B2P]

7 hours ago, sburke said:

I have CMBS v2.10 loaded.  This is not an issue of the patch, it appears this way in 2.10.  My guess is it is just stuff missed from placement during map design.

I think this proves the change happened prior to the patch.  However, I suspect there still was a change.  It seems odd the scenario designer would have all those "standing on end pallets" and the picnic tables lined up in that location.  It doesn't really look right (which is probably why @Sgt.Squarehead noticed and remembered them).  It would be interesting, if we knew who the scenario designer was, to ask him what type of flavor object he placed in that location.  He may have released the scenario not noticing his original Flavor Objects had changed. 

I'm tempted to go back and look at the scenarios TOC & Coup d'etat to see if there are any obvious Flavor Object changes I didn't notice since at the time I wasn't looking for or aware of this change.        

[A Canadian Cat]

11 hours ago, MOS:96B2P said:

@IanL I can submit the Mantis report.  I was just hoping to be able to provide more details on what causes the Flavor Object change.  

Sounds good. I have no doubt you will get to the bottom of how to reproduce this.

[sburke]

44 minutes ago, MOS:96B2P said:

I think this proves the change happened prior to the patch.  However, I suspect there still was a change.  It seems odd the scenario designer would have all those "standing on end pallets" and the picnic tables lined up in that location.  It doesn't really look right (which is probably why @Sgt.Squarehead noticed and remembered them).  It would be interesting, if we knew who the scenario designer was, to ask him what type of flavor object he placed in that location.  He may have released the scenario not noticing his original Flavor Objects had changed. 

I'm tempted to go back and look at the scenarios TOC & Coup d'etat to see if there are any obvious Flavor Object changes I didn't notice since at the time I wasn't looking for or aware of this change.        

I disagree,  it looks more like a bunch of flavor items got put down to then be moved and were simply forgotten, but only the designer could say. I have done something similar. I have found that frequently in trying to place individual flavor objects I inadvertently click and several appear.  Now I tend to put them in a grouped location and then move them in 3D mode to avoid having extraneous ones floating around. If it was from the game I would expect to see this happening more often. Still it is a possibility that can’t be eliminated until we can figure out how to duplicate the issue and then determine what version we can duplicate it in. I have pre patch for both CMSF and CMBS now so have a baseline to work from if needed. 

[MOS:96B2P]

2 minutes ago, sburke said:

I disagree,  it looks more like a bunch of flavor items got put down to then be moved and were simply forgotten, but only the designer could say. I have done something similar. I have found that frequently in trying to place individual flavor objects I inadvertently click and several appear.  Now I tend to put them in a grouped location and then move them in 3D mode to avoid having extraneous ones floating around. If it was from the game I would expect to see this happening more often. Still it is a possibility that can’t be eliminated until we can figure out how to duplicate the issue and then determine what version we can duplicate it in. I have pre patch for both CMSF and CMBS now so have a baseline to work from if needed. 

I've duplicated it in a controlled test.  I'm positive the change happens.  I'm just not sure what the cause is since it does not happen consistently.  

[usgubgub]

I have found a cure which seems to work, albeit a labourious one. 

All flavour objects which appear to have shifted shape have to be removed with ctrl/click. The purged scenario has to be saved. Then you have to get out of that scenario by loading another one, then re-load the saved scenario. The map should come up as you saved it, without the offending flavour objects. You then proceed to re-create the flavour objects from scratch in the map view, and re-position them in the 3D preview. Once done, the scenario has to be saved, exited by loading a different one and re-loaded.

You may still get the odd one shifting shape, but that seems to be related to exceeding the density of flavour objects per action point, so just take the one that shifted shape out and that should fix it.

[MOS:96B2P]

1 hour ago, usgubgub said:

I have found a cure which seems to work, albeit a labourious one. 

You may still get the odd one shifting shape, but that seems to be related to exceeding the density of flavour objects per action point, so just take the one that shifted shape out and that should fix it.

I have done something similar but not as laborious.  I delete the offending flavor object (the one that replaced the original intended flavor object).  Then clone the proper / intended flavor object and put it back in the original location.  Then save.  This will fix the problem with that particular flavor object.  I'm not sure if it is a permanent fix (time will tell). 

You can move about the map with the camera to insure the flavor objects appear as they should, save and exit.  However at some point in the future (usually after using the editor) you will observe more random changes to previously placed flavor objects. 

On a test map the random change occurred when there was only one flavor object placed per 8x8 meter Action Spot.  Also with relatively few Flavor objects on that same test map.  Also on that test map the flavor objects were not cloned but placed while in the 2D part of the editor.  Also with no moded flavor objects on the test map. 

So I still don't understand what causes this random flavor object change to happen....................            

Edited August 16, 2019 by MOS:96B2P

[Sgt.Squarehead]

I don't understand why I've never seen it directly, considering how much time I've spent messing with them.....However they tend to be the very last thing I do on a map and unless the map is enormous, they tend to be done in a couple of sittings, with many saves.

FWIW

[Sgt.Squarehead]

Here's another possible example from CM:BS:

This is from mission #2 of an unmodified version the 'Shield of Kiev' campaign.....The car on the left is a non-standard flavour object.  How did it get there? 

PS - Just found another one, rather oddly placed:

Edited December 7, 2019 by Sgt.Squarehead

[Erwin]

If you've been to E Europe, that's a perfectly good parking spot.

[sburke]

On 12/8/2019 at 10:09 AM, Erwin said:

If you've been to E Europe, that's a perfectly good parking spot.

No meter!

[WimO]

Adding to this thread 4 years later.

I created a large master map with many flavour objects.

For scenarios based on that master map I created a series of smaller maps by cutting down the master map.

Result - random misplacement of some but not all flavour objects and/or swapping of some but not all flavour objects. It did not happen with every map and this might be related to which edges were trimmed off and by how much. I could run a test but don't feel like it because the problem was resolved by redoing the flavour objects on the smaller maps.

A word of advice to map makers: If you are making a master map that you plan to cut down later, then do not place any flavour objects on the master map.