John Kettler Posted September 29, 2018 Share Posted September 29, 2018 One of my CoC colleagues posted this, and I just got through watching it. Impressive work which answers a bunch of questions about this seeming Battle That Never Was (unless you're Canadian). Features a Grade One historical bombshell, too. So astounding you may think you're hallucinating. Found it most disconcerting myself. If you haven't seen this yet, MAKE the time. Regards, John Kettler 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerner Posted September 30, 2018 Share Posted September 30, 2018 I neither have the time nor the desire to watch the whole hour, at least not for a few days. Could you at least tell us the time stamp of the big reveal, JK? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted September 30, 2018 Share Posted September 30, 2018 (edited) At first I thought JK was being over dramatic but I gotta say it was damn surprising and historically speaking, amazing. Quite a bomb shell. I think you should watch the whole thing, MJ to get the full effect of what actually happens. It's worth it. Seriously. Good post, John. Mord. Edited September 30, 2018 by Mord 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erwin Posted September 30, 2018 Share Posted September 30, 2018 Much as I enjoy John's finds, there is no reason not to do a simple summary. It's not like we're the marketing team expecting to make money for every viewer who commits the time to watch the whole doc. As I understand it the battle was conducted for political reasons: The Russians felt that the Italian Front was collapsing and therefore there was no reason to do the Normandy landings earlier (which of course meant that the Russians would not get to the Channel). According to the doc, the Ortona "horror" was to convince the Russian observers that the Italian Front was very tough and hence the Normandy landings were vital. There it is. Saved you over an hour of your life. On the other hand it is an interesting doc - much of which deals with the horrible biz of MOUT ops in Ortona. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mord Posted September 30, 2018 Share Posted September 30, 2018 56 minutes ago, Erwin said: There it is. Saved you over an hour of your life. 56 minutes ago, Erwin said: On the other hand it is an interesting doc - much of which deals with the horrible biz of MOUT ops in Ortona. Unreal... Mord. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nik mond Posted September 30, 2018 Share Posted September 30, 2018 (edited) 9 hours ago, mjkerner said: I neither have the time nor the desire to watch the whole hour, at least not for a few days. Could you at least tell us the time stamp of the big reveal, JK? tune in at 48 minutes exactly: The great reveal... Its a great video though and I enjoyed watching it in its entirety. Thanks John. Edited September 30, 2018 by nik mond 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerner Posted September 30, 2018 Share Posted September 30, 2018 Thanks, no big deal though. I had already added it to my long, long list of documentaries and CM AARs to watch on Youtube. But I'm in the middle of a tough plumbing job until probably Tuesday, at which time I will finally break down and call an actual plumber to get it down correctly! <Looks over shoulder...."Working on that Honey-Do list as we speak, Dear!"> 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 (edited) 2 hours ago, mjkerner said: at which time I will finally break down and call an actual plumber to get it down correctly! <Looks over shoulder...."Working on that Honey-Do list as we speak, Dear!"> Damn you, I almost spit out my wine! Way too funny. We just finished our bathroom upgrade and part of why it took so long is I will not do plumbing work. Edited October 1, 2018 by sburke 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Kettler Posted October 1, 2018 Author Share Posted October 1, 2018 mjkerner, If I may employ a personal analogy, when I was in college again after starting work at Hughes, I took a military history course at nearby CSUN (California State University Northridge) called Small Wars, during which we got to read the unredacted Pentagon Papers. This was traumatic for me, since during the War, I was a Hawk and had bought the party line about why we were there, only to find out that we didn't need to be there, it wasn't strategic and that we didn't care about the South Vietnamese people. Why, then, were we there? We were showing the Russians we were tough, not to mess with us, were willing to fight, but did it in such a way the message got sent but no one got nuked. We showed our stance against Russian expansion was not just rhetoric spouting by putting our troops into that meat grinder and staying all those years. This caused me to go up to my professor and ask him "Does this mean every time we need to show the Russians we're tough we have to sacrifice 57,000 of the flower of our youth?" He looked at me wordlessly, having no good answer! Went into this documentary knowing only that Ortona was a bitterly fought battle in Italy and someone thought it so important he did a CM version of it. Call it an acute deficit in my WW II knowledge base. What I learned, though, is that Ortona's role was much the same as the US's purpose for being in the Vietnam War. For Stalin was bloody proof that a) the US, UK et al. weren't sitting idle while the Russians bled white, but were in fact involved in heavy combat of their own, thus justifying not opening the Second Front for which the Russians had so long clamored. But you know the Russians and their trust issues with the West... Regards, John Kettler 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjkerner Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 As I sink into despair, plumbing the depths of my being, my life seems to be in the crapper. Alas, maybe I’ll go bowl a game, or better, open up my pipes and plunge into song! Plumber called. Here between 9:00 and 10:00 tomorrow. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Michael Emrys Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Block that pun! Michael 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JulianJ Posted October 1, 2018 Share Posted October 1, 2018 Thanks John, I found that really engrossing. Very grim urban fighting. I was pretty involved so had forgotten about the reveal, so I was pleased when I saw the shot at 48mins and said "Oh yes they're XXXXX!" [spoiler removed]. Yes, I agree, a kind of mini-Stalingrad, like the original, in winter. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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