How do you manage BMP+infantry?

[exsonic01]

As far as I know, to maximize the BMP's detection ability in CMBS, 1 or 2 soldiers should be inside the BMP and work as a commander role. Is this right? Do you always put 1~2 ppl inside the BMP? But sometimes this results lack of infantry number on the field... Not sure how can I solve this dilemma. 

[MikeyD]

This is a real major flaw in the BMP concept. If you're struggling with how to make proper use of them welcome to real-world tactical problems. Players have complained in the past that Steve must've done something wrong with the crewing or TO&E or something. Steve's reply was he can only work with what the Russian military gave him.

[exsonic01]

2 hours ago, MikeyD said:

This is a real major flaw in the BMP concept. If you're struggling with how to make proper use of them welcome to real-world tactical problems. Players have complained in the past that Steve must've done something wrong with the crewing or TO&E or something. Steve's reply was he can only work with what the Russian military gave him.

But is this true that all BMP crews are 2, not 3 in real Rus army now? 

ps) I found the old posts in this forum and got the answer. 

Edited January 29, 2017 by exsonic01

[DMS]

In real life 2IC stays in 1 of 3 BMPs. Like in Ukrainian BMP platoon. Though TO&E is changing last years, and last TO&E is classified. Who knows.

Edited January 29, 2017 by DMS

[DMS]

1 hour ago, exsonic01 said:

But is this true that all BMP crews are 2, not 3 in real Rus army now?

Yes, it is true. Commander's place is occupied by squad leader while squad is mounted.

[gnarly]

5 hours ago, exsonic01 said:

As far as I know, to maximize the BMP's detection ability in CMBS, 1 or 2 soldiers should be inside the BMP and work as a commander role. Is this right? Do you always put 1~2 ppl inside the BMP?

This is pretty much what I've started doing.

 

Though I have noticed that even with the Commander's station crewed, it takes a minute or two for the info the 'Commander' sees to be seen by the gunner, which is odd.

[Michael Emrys]

8 hours ago, exsonic01 said:

As far as I know, to maximize the BMP's detection ability in CMBS, 1 or 2 soldiers should be inside the BMP and work as a commander role.

How do you work that, split off a scout team from the squad? I haven't played with Russian forces, so I don't know exactly how they are organized.

Michael

[Marwek77 aka Red Reporter]

I use Igla Team (1 men) as BMP commander - this way the squad can stay in full men status...

[Rinaldi]

4 hours ago, Michael Emrys said:

How do you work that, split off a scout team from the squad? I haven't played with Russian forces, so I don't know exactly how they are organized.

Michael

That's the idea, a scout split works best. I often split the Company Command squad as well and keep the Company NCO mounted as a LAV Captain. Helps with C2.

It's give and take but with the BMP-3s you often have more than enough fire power to walk infantry onto the objective, even if they're in 4 man teams. I think I'm paraphrasing MikeyD when he said the idea was to 'have your infantry walk over the charred bodies of the enemy.'

Edited January 29, 2017 by Rinaldi

[DMS]

Realistic way to use BMPs is not to use BMPs like tanks. They should be behind infantry lines, so infantry would spot and give targets. Using scout teams to man the commander's place is a bad idea, better place that scout team on a hill and BMP behind that hill, than use "shoot'n'scoot" tactic.

[HUSKER2142]

The Russian army is often practiced such a thing, when one of the squad leader in  platoon takes BMP and commands all combat vehicles in platoon. In other cases, the crews are on their own or receive commands from the squad leader or leader platoon.. Unfortunately this is one of the drawbacks in the structure of the RF Army.The most appropriate under the western structure, suitable BMP-3. In which there are 7 passenger seats and 3 crew.

 

^{В российской армии часто практикуется такая вещь , когда один из командиров отделения во взводе занимает БМП и командует всеми боевыми машинами во взводе . В остальных случаях  экипажи действуют самостоятельно или получают команды от командира отделения или взвода . Увы это один из недостатков в структуре армии РФ . Наиболее подходящие под западную структуру, является БМП-3. В которой есть 7 десантных мест и 3 для экипажа.}

Edited January 29, 2017 by HUSKER2142

[exsonic01]

58 minutes ago, DMS said:

Realistic way to use BMPs is not to use BMPs like tanks. They should be behind infantry lines, so infantry would spot and give targets. Using scout teams to man the commander's place is a bad idea, better place that scout team on a hill and BMP behind that hill, than use "shoot'n'scoot" tactic.

Yes, this is what I'm doing now, put BMPs behind, and if infantry make contact and spot the target, than use BMPs to force-attack (attack briefly 15~30 sec) that position quickly, and scoop away.

However, drawback of this method is that those BMPs would be hard to deal against unexpected events/contacts, like sudden emerge of Bradley or Javelin/AT4 team, because they are pretty much blind and bound to my force-attack command. I already lost several BMPs while shoot'n scoop because of this issue. (My opponent get used to my tactic and counter my BMPs in that way ) I think eventually some units should be in the BMP, for better efficiency of shoot'n scoop, and to grant some freedom to engage to BMPs. 

But I agree that embarking rifle squad scout team in BMP is a bad choice. I need some boys on the field for the firepower. I think I better use some sniper platoon/recon platoon units. 

Edited January 29, 2017 by exsonic01

[gnarly]

6 hours ago, Marwek77 aka Red Reporter said:

I use Igla Team (1 men) as BMP commander - this way the squad can stay in full men status...

Nice. I will check this out.

 

Have you noticed any significant delay in info sharing between  this IGLA 'commander' and his BMP crew?

[Artemis258]

I have a love/hate relationship with BMPs... at their best, they are 30mm machineguns permenantly in direct support of each squad, but... the spotting thing is tricky. My advice? Use them for targeted recon-by-fire, leave AT roles to other assets, and count anything more as a bonus. @gnarly

[gnarly]

2 hours ago, Artemis258 said:

I have a love/hate relationship with BMPs... at their best, they are 30mm machineguns permanently in direct support of each squad, 

Overlooking the BMP-3's 100mm main guns (and their lethal air bursts) that  I mauled you with that last battle...   

 

[Artemis258]

...

[Marwek77 aka Red Reporter]

11 hours ago, gnarly said:

Nice. I will check this out.

 

Have you noticed any significant delay in info sharing between  this IGLA 'commander' and his BMP crew?

Hard to say, there is always delay in info sharing, but sharing between more experienced soldiers is somehow quicker...

[DMS]

17 hours ago, exsonic01 said:

Yes, this is what I'm doing now, put BMPs behind, and if infantry make contact and spot the target, than use BMPs to force-attack (attack briefly 15~30 sec) that position quickly, and scoop away.

However, drawback of this method is that those BMPs would be hard to deal against unexpected events/contacts, like sudden emerge of Bradley or Javelin/AT4 team, because they are pretty much blind and bound to my force-attack command. I already lost several BMPs while shoot'n scoop because of this issue. (My opponent get used to my tactic and counter my BMPs in that way ) I think eventually some units should be in the BMP, for better efficiency of shoot'n scoop, and to grant some freedom to engage to BMPs. 

But I agree that embarking rifle squad scout team in BMP is a bad choice. I need some boys on the field for the firepower. I think I better use some sniper platoon/recon platoon units. 

 

This is tank's job! BMP is an ersatz-tank, has it 3 crew members or 2.

Pop up, 5-10s to aim and fire, than pull back. 5s is not enough for Javelin to fire. 10s is not enough too if Javelin team doesn't have contact.

[Kinophile]

22 hours ago, DMS said:

Realistic way to use BMPs is not to use BMPs like tanks. They should be behind infantry lines, so infantry would spot and give targets. Using scout teams to man the commander's place is a bad idea, better place that scout team on a hill and BMP behind that hill, than use "shoot'n'scoot" tactic.

This is a nice idea in theory, but in practice it leaves a lot to be desired.

It's all very well for your scout team to see the approaching Brad,but the BMP still needs to see it itself when it pops out - if the BMP takes 10 seconds to see, and the Brad takes 6 seconds, then that's a pointless attempt at shoot n scoot.

If adding a 3rd crew reduces that spotting to 5-6 then by golly I'ma gonna do it.

If/when I get free time, that is

Edited January 30, 2017 by kinophile

[A Canadian Cat]

I'm not sure what @DMS's exact technique is in this situation but I would (do) use a target briefly to area target just behind the known enemy location. I'll settle for just in front but try for just behind. That way I get rounds on if my BMP spots the enemy or not.

[cool breeze]

Does anybody ever leave whole half squads in the BMP?  Its something Ive done only a little bit and only recently but I think its not a bad idea if you are being safe with the BMPs.  The down side is less infantry firepower and spotting, but if you dont lose the BMPs, lol,  the upsides are keeping your infantry safer and having a little more reactive power, because you can unload the other half if needed.  and having stronger better spotting BMPs. Of course it sucks when the BMPs blow up but its nice when only half your guys can be killed by artillery and you can keep the leaders safe. 

 

maybe more of a defense thing,  like the leader half is in the BMP hiding behind the building or hill and the other half is in the building/ on the hill

[DMS]

12 hours ago, IanL said:

I'm not sure what @DMS's exact technique is in this situation but I would (do) use a target briefly to area target just behind the known enemy location. I'll settle for just in front but try for just behind. That way I get rounds on if my BMP spots the enemy or not.

Target area at question mark or near, yes. It is only way for vehicles with poor spotting, like BMP-2 or T-34-76.

9 hours ago, cool breeze said:

Does anybody ever leave whole half squads in the BMP?  Its something Ive done only a little bit and only recently but I think its not a bad idea if you are being safe with the BMPs.  The down side is less infantry firepower and spotting, but if you dont lose the BMPs, lol,  the upsides are keeping your infantry safer and having a little more reactive power, because you can unload the other half if needed.  and having stronger better spotting BMPs. Of course it sucks when the BMPs blow up but its nice when only half your guys can be killed by artillery and you can keep the leaders safe. 

 

BMP-3 has 2 hull mounted MGs, so putting 3 man squad in BMP has a sense. 1 will comand, 2 others will use MGs.

[JUAN DEAG]

On 1/30/2017 at 5:15 PM, cool breeze said:

Does anybody ever leave whole half squads in the BMP?  Its something Ive done only a little bit and only recently but I think its not a bad idea if you are being safe with the BMPs.  The down side is less infantry firepower and spotting, but if you dont lose the BMPs, lol,  the upsides are keeping your infantry safer and having a little more reactive power, because you can unload the other half if needed.  and having stronger better spotting BMPs. Of course it sucks when the BMPs blow up but its nice when only half your guys can be killed by artillery and you can keep the leaders safe. 

 

maybe more of a defense thing,  like the leader half is in the BMP hiding behind the building or hill and the other half is in the building/ on the hill

Leaving a fire team or more inside a BMP is pretty much always a bad idea. It's different with leaders because they are usually smaller teams and have the added benefit of access to better radios and other communication equipment.

[JUAN DEAG]

14 hours ago, DMS said:

Target area at question mark or near, yes. It is only way for vehicles with poor spotting, like BMP-2 or T-34-76.

It's an annoying part of this game. I wish vehicles could spot partial contacts quicker since they are actively searching for them.

[cool breeze]

18 hours ago, JUAN DEAG said:

Leaving a fire team or more inside a BMP is pretty much always a bad idea

Until the airburts artillery wipes em all out before they can get back in the vehicle.  Or wipes half of em out before they get back in.  If the arty wipes half and you only had 3 out you only lost 1.5, leaving you with a strong squad.  Lose half of a full squad and they might be broken and useless, without a leader.  

I just wish you could you the administration commands from inside the vehicle, its too much of a pain to either cross load squads in the beginning to make it easier (but less flexible) later, or get the whole squad out, wait till the end of the turn to split em and send the leader half back inside. 

A good time to do it would be when you are scouting by sending bmps to drop off squads behind hills with trees that they are going to walk up into and spot from.   The bmps are safe behind the hills, but the scout squads in the trees at the top of the hills are quite exposed to HE, so you can reduce risk by having only half out.

Edited February 1, 2017 by cool breeze