Sound Contacts?

[weapon2010]

 Does anyone feel that sound contacts reveal to much information about the enemy?

[mbarbaric]

not really if you play iron. however, i find them quite annoying as they lay there like winter fog... much too long and should be cleared out once your soldiers don't hear them anymore.

[Anthony P.]

I don't think they reveal much, just whether it's infantry, a truck, etc. I would like it if they could make it possible to click on a sound contact and see who knows of it, like with spotted units.

[MOS:96B2P]

32 minutes ago, Anthony P. said:

<Snip>  I would like it if they could make it possible to click on a sound contact and see who knows of it, like with spotted units.

This would be interesting.

[SlowLarry]

33 minutes ago, Anthony P. said:

I don't think they reveal much, just whether it's infantry, a truck, etc. I would like it if they could make it possible to click on a sound contact and see who knows of it, like with spotted units.

That would be great indeed! Totally +1

[[MyIS] Buffpuff]

3 hours ago, mbarbaric said:

not really if you play iron. however, i find them quite annoying as they lay there like winter fog... much too long and should be cleared out once your soldiers don't hear them anymore.

 

Never played Iron level (Insert Hefty commercial "Wimpy wimpy wimpy!!!). My groan is investigating said contact areas and "clearing" them but yet they remain quite often.

1 hour ago, Anthony P. said:

I don't think they reveal much, just whether it's infantry, a truck, etc. I would like it if they could make it possible to click on a sound contact and see who knows of it, like with spotted units.

Now that would be a great idea. Pure wishful thinking on my part but if they added something like this for CMx3 and real weather effects (like real foggy weather, thunderstorms, etc.) I'd be a very happy camper.

[landser]

10 hours ago, [MyIS] Buffpuff said:

Never played Iron level (Insert Hefty commercial "Wimpy wimpy wimpy!!!).

Not at all.  Combat Mission difficulty levels have less practical effect on gameplay than probably any game I can think of at the moment. It could be argued that Veteran is more difficult for the human player than Iron. And here's why... The only real effects it has in my view are the call-down time on artillery and air support, enemy unit info, and the time it takes for buddy aid. Ignoring the Basic Training level, which I have not played, in practical terms I find that playing Warrior or above, with the longer support delay, means it is easier to avoid getting caught in an AI artillery barrage.

Of course your artillery takes as long, but in the vast majority of missions and especially campaigns, the player is in some form of attack. Your forces are on the move, the AI in defensive positions is not.  I am sure that I would take more casualties due to enemy artillery in Veteran than I would in Warrior. You just simply have less time to move out from under the impending strike.

To be fair, Battlefront doesn't call the various setting difficulty levels, but skill levels. And they aren't intended to make the game more difficult per se, but to limit the info the player has as to the enemy units he is in contact with. Even so, this has little practical effect in my opinion, especially if you click on the unit, or pay close attention. It's true you won't have detailed info on which individual soldiers in an enemy unit you have incapacitated, or instant identification of unit type, but in actual gameplay I find it really makes little difference.

I currently have campaigns going in Warrior and Iron levels. The main difference in Iron is " Friendly units must be spotted, just like enemy units". Before I played my first Iron campaign I thought this would make it more challenging. Well, I really didn't know what it would do in terms of my decision making, tactics and so on. But having played a number of campaigns in Iron I've come to feel it really doesn't make any difference at all. For me, it's more a difference of how readily visible enemy unit info is, and less about how much info there is, though in strict terms there is less information in the higher settings. The question is, how much does this affect how you play?

For me I tend to go with Warrior most of the time, but I believe there must be some sort of advantage to the player in Iron, I just haven't worked it out in practical terms.

 

'

[[MyIS] Buffpuff]

30 minutes ago, landser said:

Not at all.  Combat Mission difficulty levels have less practical effect on gameplay than probably any game I can think of at the moment. It could be argued that Veteran is more difficult for the human player than Iron. And here's why... The only real effects it has in my view are the call-down time on artillery and air support, enemy unit info, and the time it takes for buddy aid. Ignoring the Basic Training level, which I have not played, in practical terms I find that playing Warrior or above, with the longer support delay, means it is easier to avoid getting caught in an AI artillery barrage.

Of course your artillery takes as long, but in the vast majority of missions and especially campaigns, the player is in some form of attack. Your forces are on the move, the AI in defensive positions is not.  I am sure that I would take more casualties due to enemy artillery in Veteran than I would in Warrior. You just simply have less time to move out from under the impending strike.

To be fair, Battlefront doesn't call the various setting difficulty levels, but skill levels. And they aren't intended to make the game more difficult per se, but to limit the info the player has as to the enemy units he is in contact with. Even so, this has little practical effect in my opinion, especially if you click on the unit, or pay close attention. It's true you won't have detailed info on which individual soldiers in an enemy unit you have incapacitated, or instant identification of unit type, but in actual gameplay I find it really makes little difference.

I currently have campaigns going in Warrior and Iron levels. The main difference in Iron is " Friendly units must be spotted, just like enemy units". Before I played my first Iron campaign I thought this would make it more challenging. Well, I really didn't know what it would do in terms of my decision making, tactics and so on. But having played a number of campaigns in Iron I've come to feel it really doesn't make any difference at all. For me, it's more a difference of how readily visible enemy unit info is, and less about how much info there is, though in strict terms there is less information in the higher settings. The question is, how much does this affect how you play?

For me I tend to go with Warrior most of the time, but I believe there must be some sort of advantage to the player in Iron, I just haven't worked it out in practical terms.

 

'

Well considering that I 99.9 percent play on Veteran level I can understand why I get kablam'd by artillery. I'm getting better at spotting rounds but I, on more than one occasion, have been suckered by hearing an on-map mortar "whoomp" followed by an explosion well away from what I believe the friendly unit is and then moments later a HUGE mortar barrage has ravaged everything within a 100m radius. I'm thinking I have another 30-60 seconds before that on-map mortar dials me in and I keep the units there with a quick move order later in the turn and then it's all over but the body parts. A Bloody Ride campaign comes to mind with that one. I found out (the hard way) to keep your units well spaced apart and on the move or suffer the consequences. The only problem is if you space out your units too far apart then they can't cover their teammates. I guess finding that balance of too close but far enough way to cover the friendlies is where I'm at on a skill level. I'm a firm believer in what many have said in these forums in the game, itself, is easy to play but very difficult to master.

 

*** SPOILER ALERT *** (Not sure how to do the hiding text thing)

I feel like I'm getting better as I just started Road to Montebourg again and I pulled a first for the "Get off the Beach" mission. In the past those wooden bunkers along with troops in the trenches and hedgerow would just rip my advancing troops. I was making dumb mistakes like keeping my squads intact (not splitting), not utilizing my medium/heavy machineguns, using artillery as a last resort. This go around I heavily utilized a preparatory artillery barage on my intended entry area (left side) by setting up 30m line missions on the hedgerow with the 60mm mortars and a smoke mission with the 81mm mortars. Every unit I had I placed below the initial ridge in the setup area with the exception of my XO team. Armed with binoculars I set him on the ridge line to be my lone spotter and target practice if there was to be such. He did a good job in spotting one wooden bunker and 1 unit in the hedgrerows and was target practice until the 60mm mortars started falling in earnest. The smoke landed on the avenue to make it difficult for the bunker to target a good chunk of my first contact line and I managed to rush a split platoon (9 units) and all 4 machine guns to a good position on the first line to start putting some pressure on the wooden bunker. Unknown to me at the time but the artillery prep on the beginning shell shocked every German unit on the hedgerow line. With a full platoon and 4 MGs in good firing positions and somewhat protected by the terrain (utilizing camera 1 was crucial and I hadn't done this consistently before-hand) I had one MG open up the hedgerow line closest to the buildings on the left side. I had thankfully moved the TRP in the setup to that left side in case I needed a quick reaction. The MG gave me an opportunity to use that and with a 1 min response time I setup a light fire light duration 60mm artillery mission. I trained 2 heavy MG's and 2 BAR carrying squad units of 1st platoon to target the MG with area fire. I don't think I've ever had an artillery mission go so well before. It was quick, it was accurate, and it did what I wanted in that it caused his already suppressed state to pin him and cause casualties and knock out the MG. I kept plugging away at the wooden bunker and when another bunker showed up after the smoke screen cleared I split MG fire and BAR carrying squads to start hitting it. Moved up 2nd platoon to firing positions and MG42 infantry showed up in the trench line. Another TRP mission with an 81mm mortar barrage (light fire, light duration) that hit in 2 minutes and that guy ran for the woods once the 81's started raining around and on top of him. Took out the MG wooden bunker and that left one bunker with 3 MP40 Germans in it. With no MG fire coming from that bunker I advanced using two platoons to overwatch and one to advance. And I just kept leap frogging until I reached the hedgerow line. I was expecting a big fight but here's where I learned how effective the preparatory barrage was. Not a single German unit was waiting in that hedgerow. I cleared out the area and occupied the objective killing what stragglers were left in the occupy area and the buildings. The urge to clear the trench lines was great and despite having 15 minutes left in the mission I had accomplished what I believed the mission objectives were. I waited 5 minutes and it got eerily quiet while my men searched for something to shoot at. One German unit in a foxhole behind the occupied zone showed his head but it was quickly severed. Feeling the urge to get antsy and go searching in the woods for sound contacts I resisted the temptation and hit cease fire. The results? Major victory. Accomplished every objective minus the suspected minefield area (I'm guessing that was a touch terrain object). I had 0 casualties and 2 wounded. I don't think I've ever had that happen before (no casualties). And when the mission ended I said to myself "Did I just do that with no quit and load a previous turn" (Yup).

[landser]

I'm currently playing A Bloody Ride as well. I'm on the La Charlemenerie battle, and ironically enough just took serious casualties from an enemy barrage, but it was huge caliber stuff. Is there a way to know what caliber it was? I guess only by opening the battle in the editor? Good campaign anyway. And in this battle I experienced the longest delay time I've seen. Even using an F/O it was a 21 minute wait from some 210mm with a red circle .

Good job on that mission, that should be Beau Guillot. It's a great mission because it puts a premium on covering/suppressive fire and urgent maneuver.  When you first see all of that open ground you might be tempted to think, now how will I get all the way over there? But sounds like you did a good job of unlocking it.

And while I am rambling off topic and you mentioned spacing... is there a mod that changes the spacing of individual soldiers within a squad?  There isn't a whole lot I would like to change about CM, but combat spacing is surely one of them. Spread out!, or you'll get yourselves all killed. Seeing my pixeltruppen all lined up shoulder to shoulder waiting for a mortar round to drop among them is going to drive me loopy

[[MyIS] Buffpuff]

1 minute ago, landser said:

I'm currently playing A Bloody Ride as well. I'm on the La Charlemenerie battle, and ironically enough just took serious casualties from an enemy barrage, but it was huge caliber stuff. Is there a way to know what caliber it was? I guess only by opening the battle in the editor? Good campaign anyway. And in this battle I experienced the longest delay time I've seen. Even using an F/O it was a 21 minute wait from some 210mm with a red circle .

Good job on that mission, that should be Beau Guillot. It's a great mission because it puts a premium on covering/suppressive fire and urgent maneuver.  When you first see all of that open ground you might be tempted to think, now how will I get all the way over there? But sounds like you did a good job of unlocking it.

And while I am rambling off topic and you mentioned spacing... is there a mod that changes the spacing of individual soldiers within a squad?  There isn't a whole lot I would like to change about CM, but combat spacing is surely one of them. Spread out!, or you'll get yourselves all killed. Seeing my pixeltruppen all lined up shoulder to shoulder waiting for a mortar round to drop among them is going to drive me loopy

Without looking at the editor I'm going to assume 120mm Mortar for La Charlemenerie battle. I too took a heavy barrage of that stuff and even spread out it decimated a whole platoon I had (thank goodness there are plenty of reinforcements). I didn't look at the FO time for the 210mm stuff. I used every bit of that in a preparatory barrage (timed it out for 15 minutes) aimed for the crossroads objective. I forgot to check at the end of the battle what impact it had but it was beautiful to see that making huge craters in what I hoped were enemy positions (didn't kill the AT gun or amazingly enough an enemy FO that was literally looking straight down the road at the crossroads to my avenue). I figured the delay would be huge for the 210mm and you just confirmed that (21 minutes is a LONG TIME).

[landser]

49 minutes ago, [MyIS] Buffpuff said:

amazingly enough an enemy FO that was literally looking straight down the road at the crossroads to my avenue

That's the bastage that called in that barrage, though he didn't live long enough to see it.  I should have used all of the 210mm like you did, because long delays like this slows the advance, and even more ironically, holds you in place to be hit by their barrage. But I had no idea a delay that long could even happen. And I tend to feel the need to keep some bullets in the chamber just in case. And I apologize to the TC for such a derailment of this thread.

Edited April 23, 2016 by landser

[MOS:96B2P]

28 minutes ago, landser said:

< Snip>  took serious casualties from an enemy barrage, but it was huge caliber stuff. Is there a way to know what caliber it was? I guess only by opening the battle in the editor?  < Snip>

You can open the editor and see what type of arty assets the OpFor had available and then make a informed deduction on what it was that hit you.

Another way you can attempt to figure it out is by looking at the crater size.  There are four crater sizes and the naming convention for them is a bit strange.  As I understand it the craters are Large, Medium, Huge, & Super with Large being the smallest and Super being the biggest.  If you look straight down from about zoom level 4 you can determine which of the four crater sizes you have.  So for example German 81mm mortars leave a large crater.  (I think all medium mortars do but have not tested it that far) German 120mm mortars leave a medium crater (which, is bigger than large).  German 105mm howitzers also leave a large crater.  However you can tell the difference between arty and mortars because you can see a mortar shell in the air where I think all arty is just the streak of light animation.  I have read, on the forum, that you can also tell if the mortar is on or off map by the direction of the facing of the mortar shell in flight.  If I remember nose down off map, falling sideways on map.  In PBEM games I will sometimes try to figure out what my opponent had and ask him at the end of the game.  Kind of a game within a game.      

[landser]

20 minutes ago, MOS:96B2P said:

Another way you can attempt to figure it out is by looking at the crater size.  There are four crater sizes and the naming convention for them is a bit strange.  As I understand it the craters are Large, Medium, Huge, & Super with Large being the smallest and Super being the biggest. 

Thanks. It was almost entirely airburst, but the few craters it made were the same size as my own 210 mm. This was some seriously deadly stuff, killing men more than 100 meters away. Completely shattered my fresh reserve platoon on the right flank, which I had held back to exploit a breakthrough. And then I ran them right in to that mess. Such is war.

Edited April 23, 2016 by landser

[Michael Emrys]

9 hours ago, landser said:

It was almost entirely airburst, but the few craters it made were the same size as my own 210 mm.

If it was American it may have been 8 inch then.

Michael

[landser]

Quite possibly Michael, it's more curiosity than anything, but it certainly seems in that range, bigger than 5 inch craters I've seen from destroyer fire.  Evidently forum member Mr X is the author? Appears he's still active 'round here so perhaps could shed some light, but again it's not that important, just curiosity.

To get the thread back on topic, since I feel some guilt having derailed it, I personally don't feel it reveals too much info, and I would also like to see icons fade out more quickly, and completely if no longer heard. Though it is useful in MP to create the illusion of strength.

[womble]

The irritating thing I find about tentative contacts is that they appear for troops who can't see areas that have friendly troops in them. So you click on a unit across the map, and suddenly there's a sound contact in the middle of your formation... So you have to check and make sure it's just an artefact of the system.

[Thewood1]

I think there is a mis-perception of Iron mode for people who don't use it.  Comms and contact is a lot more difficult.  Especially for keeping troops in contact by sight.  Troops have to be closer to stay in contact.  Too many people only look at the enemy sighting as the only difference.  There are a lot of subtle differences in maintaining unit cohesion in iron mode.  I would suggest playing it for more than a single game and anyone used to playing on the lower levels will slowly realize why its called iron.

Edited April 23, 2016 by Thewood1

[Warts 'n' all]

It seems both realistic and straight forward to me, from my own experience sound contacts are treated the same as visual contacts in Iron. If you click on a unit and the sound contact disappears, it means they can't hear it.