Berlin By Christmas (in July)

[Artemis258]

Congratz boys! The Wurst of the war is over! Berlin by Christmas and all that!

With the impending release of Final Blitzkrieg, we'v pretty much got it covered... the Western advance across Europe's done, except for a few bits in sausage town. Bagration means that the Eastern front is well covered, and while there may well be another module in the Russian advance into Germany and the Battle of Berlin... I'm not sure there'd be much left in that. Also it'd be a colossal curb stomping for team sauerkraut. Still do-able, certainly, but next? I'm not so sure. 

My thoughts; 

-We know (Going back to the roadmap given in the CM:FI thread) that there are more eastern front themed modules coming, I suspect they will be backwards in time not forwards (RT being expanded forward through expansions), so perhaps we'll see CM: Kursk or CM: Meatgrinder (my suggested title for stalingrad-themed releases!). I would LOVE to see 

-That said we've reached the end of that roadmap (and past it with FB!), so it could be something new is in the 'big' works while expansions are fleshed out. I'm talking early planning/drafting for early dev over the next 24 months while the main effort goes into expansion/s for RT or BS, again this would probably be early war stuff. There's a desire from some (myself included!) to see some Afrika action, but I seem to recall seeing discussion that CM:AK (way back when) burned BF on that theater a little with poor sales...  possible perhaps? I doubt it would be CM: Poland '39 or CM:France '40... Poland probably wouldn't be fun, France is a possibility, but I'm wondering if the lack of shinies (big cats, easy 8's, the mighty T-34 ect) might put people off... 

-The wild Card; given CM's engine progression to date, the exhaustion of the end war stuff, and a predication to fermented cabbage, maybe we'll storm forward in time, not backwards. Swap sauerkraut for Kimchi. We've got lots of the 'bits' already (smallarms, al lot of the armour, ect) so it wouldn't be a hugestretch to expand the series in this direction, if BF were willing to step outside WW2 once again. It's the difference between being a WW2 wargame/sim with some fun flair outside (BS, CF), or a wargaming Sim which started in WW2. 


Modules 

-RT needs some. I would love to see a Tali-Ihantala module myself. Fins with a mix of Russian and German equipment fighting the desperate defense against the Russians! Classic battle, underdog wins, again all our toys are pretty much there and... it's also the subject of my fave. ww2 film! If you've not seen it, go see it - Tali-ihantala 1944 - the best tank combat scenes of any World War 2 film. Knocks Fury out of the water, even with the candid Tiger shots.   

-Black Sea: Remove Kebab? Been a bit of a discussion of Turkish involvement in our modern theater from the peanut gallery. Certainly not impossible, but perhaps it's more likely to see CM:Barbarossa 2 (European units in BS)  or CM: We used to be on Boats (Marines). Though the latter wouldn't add much I feel :S 


I think most likely is, in order;
- RT expansion of some kind, probably not my beloved fins  
-CM:Kimchi (It's an outside chance but you always pick one to pack out the trifector!) 
-CM: Curb Stomp. Advance into Germany/Battle of Berlin kind of stuff. I sort of hope they don't go this direction as I think there are more interesting places to go but... *shrug*

So, given we're about to get the next installment of our favorite tactical sim, what do you think we'll see next? What would you want to see next? After all, it's never too early to ask mummy and daddy for a pony... 

[AttorneyAtWar]

The next Red Thunder module will be about the drive into Prussia and the wars closing stages in the east.

[Ivan Zaitzev]

I would love to see a Pacific game, Guadalcanal and all the Island jumping after that. But that would mean a total conversion of the game and a lot of heavy forested maps, so I don't think this is ever going to come true.

[TGarner]

Im pulling for the Shock Force upgrade.

If WWII I would ask for North Africa. Massive tank battles.

Edited March 31, 2016 by TGarner

[Artemis258]

29 minutes ago, Ivan Zaitzev said:

I would love to see a Pacific game, Guadalcanal and all the Island jumping after that. But that would mean a total conversion of the game and a lot of heavy forested maps, so I don't think this is ever going to come true.

What would need converting? We've got amphib coding with Black Sea (russian vehicles) so I wouldn't think it that much of a stretch... flamethrowers too... Could be a possibility? 

@TGarner I think there was some discussion about this in CM:SF thread, and the conclusion was it'd not be an upgrade but a rebuild, and the current state of affairs means you'd need a new setting (because there isn't much of a Syria right now...) but it could be interesting to see another modern title... But then again, the question is do Battlefront see themselves as primarily making World War 2 combat sims, or combat sims in general? 

Edited March 31, 2016 by Artemis258

[LukeFF]

How about just enjoying the game instead of speculating about what comes after CMFB?

[Artemis258]

4 minutes ago, LukeFF said:

How about just enjoying the game instead of speculating about what comes after CMFB?

Because even though I own a great motorcycle, it's still fun to browse the new season's offerings from BMW and think/wish/dream! Also, because at this point the traditional avenues of Combat Mission 2(Europe, be it east west and south) have pretty much been exhausted.... so there is speculation to be had! 
Like I said, it's never too soon to start begging mummy and daddy for a pony. 

Also I have no turns to return. 

Also the demo isn't out yet. 
Surely you've got some fun fantasies of your own? 

[TGarner]

No worries on Shock Force. I still love it the way it is and play it all the time.

And I do prefer they specialize in WWII in all honesty. I only play modern stuff on the side my heart lies with the WWII titles.

Edited March 31, 2016 by TGarner

[Ithikial_AU]

I'm part of the pro-Africa bandwagon but BF have to run a business and make the call on projects. Pure fun speculation on my part but I think the next family of games you'll see announced will be 1943-44 Eastern Front with the base game centered around Kursk.

Once the German TOE is done for that, maybe it's worthwhile diving into Africa. However my understanding of the African theatre was that there is a solid break for many nations TOE once that theatre came to an end - particularly for the Allies as they made wholesale changes before launching Huskey. The Americans learning from their mistakes in Tunisia / Kaserine Pass, and the Commonwealth leaving behind most of their 'traditional' armour in favour of the new Shermans etc. North Africa would be a I think a seperate undertaking, but the only real option if they want to maintain a Western Allies CMx2 game post CMFB modules.

My dreamworld scenario for the African family:

Base Game - Tunisa = US vs Italy and Germany (Vichy French?)

Module 1 - El Alemein -> Mareth Line = Commonwealth Forces going back to First El Alemein.

Module 2 - Africa 1940 -> Early 1942. (Tobruk, Crusader, Battle Axe etc).

Module 3 - Commonwealth Expeditions. (Yugoslavia, Greece and Crete).

Packs after that for the smaller scale theatres East Africa, Middle East?

Edited March 31, 2016 by Ithikial_AU

[Artemis258]

I think you might well be right on that. Kursk still has some shiny stuff to play with, and fits closer to the current gen of TO&E, so if it's WW2 that's the most likely next 'game'. That said it would be nice to have some early-mid war stuff... I'd hold out for a CM: Stalingrad for sure, but it'd be much less likely... 

Either way I'd love to see KV tanks in game. Dunno what I love about them but I do. 



 

Edited March 31, 2016 by Artemis258

[Michael Emrys]

You want wild cards? Here's one: Manchuria, August, 1945. Sure, it's a slam dunk for the Soviets and pretty obscure among the wargaming public. But...WOW! And just for kicks, there could be a Khalkhyn Gol module covering kit prior to the official start of WW II.

Otherwise, I agree with LukeFF.

Michael

[Baneman]

8 hours ago, Artemis258 said:

 CM:France '40... , but I'm wondering if the lack of shinies (big cats, easy 8's, the mighty T-34 ect) might put people off... 
 

I sure hope not, this has long been a hope of mine.

Just think about it - Panzer I's and II's running all over the place, Panzer III's with the 37mm popgun, dinky armoured cars, big scary (but slow) Chars, AT rifles ruining everyone's day...

The bonus Beta AAR gives some idea of what fun can be had with light armour and in 1940 the infantry would be very different too.
I certainly live in hope.

[Michael Emrys]

Perhaps BFC has been hesitant to try to model "tank fright". How many players would be happy to have the morale of their infantry drop through the floor and throw up their hands as soon as enemy tanks appear?

Michael

[Artemis258]

4 hours ago, Baneman said:

I sure hope not, this has long been a hope of mine.

Just think about it - Panzer I's and II's running all over the place, Panzer III's with the 37mm popgun, dinky armoured cars, big scary (but slow) Chars, AT rifles ruining everyone's day...

The bonus Beta AAR gives some idea of what fun can be had with light armour and in 1940 the infantry would be very different too.
I certainly live in hope.

 

I really enjoyed reading that AAR Bane, I'm thinking of trying one of those out on the Italian front (best one for armoured vehicles for me as I don't have BN)... unless FB  drops before I get it organised! It'd also be interesting to see an environment where the Germans are operating on the offensive... After all, they started it! 

 

1 hour ago, Michael Emrys said:

Perhaps BFC has been hesitant to try to model "tank fright". How many players would be happy to have the morale of their infantry drop through the floor and throw up their hands as soon as enemy tanks appear?

Michael

Perhaps, but it would definitely be possible...  And it wouldn't be the first time 'balance' took a hit for realism (as it should for this sort of game I might add- but for clear examples see the American tanks in the modern titles). A new element to change the pace might be fun... Also, in France at least it isn't the Germans with the impervious tanks, but the British Expeditionary force (7th RTR) with their Matilda 2's. I think I read somewhere that the Brits thought it unsporting that the Germans turned their 88's on them... 

Anyone done any thinking into the extent of "tank Fright' at the start of ww2? I know there was an element of 'tiger fright' present in Afrika... but how much of an effect did it have tactically? Again we see the germans face the highly formidable t-34 in 41, but the crew training and 2 man turret severely hinder it's operational efficiency... But perhaps these are operational concerns, and for war game purposes 'tank fright' could be an interesting element to bring to the table...? 

We'd also probably see far more use of AT guns! 

 

6 hours ago, Michael Emrys said:

You want wild cards? Here's one: Manchuria, August, 1945. Sure, it's a slam dunk for the Soviets and pretty obscure among the wargaming public. But...WOW! And just for kicks, there could be a Khalkhyn Gol module covering kit prior to the official start of WW II.

Otherwise, I agree with LukeFF.

Michael

Manchuria '45 might be interesting, but again it's a bit of a curb stomp. That said, it introduces a new army to the game, and a new theatre *shrug* wild card for sure!

Anyone else? 

Also a side note, this is just a fun 'what if' discussion that comes with the launch of any game... no-one's forcing anyone to speculate nor shunning those who won't, so if it's not your gig that's fine... please afford those of us who enjoy speculating about this the same courtesy. 



 

[kohlenklau]

CM Korea 1950 with modules to take us through that entire war (police action) would be my wish!

Here is my chart I always whip out at these meetings...

After CMFB releases...2017 will see modules for CMFI, CMRT and maybe CMBS. The years pass by quickly! A first module for CMFB maybe in 2018?

A new CM Ost Front family to cover 1943-1944 not released until the early 2020's? 

[Michael Emrys]

23 minutes ago, Artemis258 said:

Anyone done any thinking into the extent of "tank Fright' at the start of ww2? I know there was an element of 'tiger fright' present in Afrika... but how much of an effect did it have tactically?

I was just wondering the same thing a little earlier. I've never come across a serious study of the psychology of surrender in the France 1940 time frame. There are abundant accounts by German memoirists of French soldiers giving up en masse as soon as the tanks arrived, but I think even those were mainly during the first two weeks of the battle. Later, French soldiers settled down and gave quite determined resistance, but by then it was too late.

Michael

[G. Smiley]

I am dreaming of having the Finns in the game... ski units and crappy early Russian tanks... that is a lot of fun!

[simon21]

12 hours ago, Ivan Zaitzev said:

I would love to see a Pacific game, Guadalcanal and all the Island jumping after that. But that would mean a total conversion of the game and a lot of heavy forested maps, so I don't think this is ever going to come true.

You should give Order of Battle : Pacific a try.

 

I actually think the CM format doesn't work well for the Pacific War.  Most RTS games avoid it for a reason.  

 

I'm absolutely pro-North Africa.  

 

Edited March 31, 2016 by simon21

[mbarbaric]

since we are daydreaming...

how about a fictional scenaryo set in europe in 80s?

warszaw pact vs nato plus yugoslavia - AWESOME

base game set up in germany . first mission taking over west berlin and then advance on west germany 

first expansion war in scandinavia

second expansion war in france

and my favorite third expansion that is prelude to all and is a proxy war in yugoslavia as warszaw pact attacks neutral yugoslavia to topple the regime after Tito's death. you'd have nato, warszaw and yugo forces everyone fighting against everyone weeehooo

Edited March 31, 2016 by mbarbaric

[Baneman]

10 minutes ago, Michael Emrys said:

I was just wondering the same thing a little earlier. I've never come across a serious study of the psychology of surrender in the France 1940 time frame. There are abundant accounts by German memoirists of French soldiers giving up en masse as soon as the tanks arrived, but I think even those were mainly during the first two weeks of the battle. Later, French soldiers settled down and gave quite determined resistance, but by then it was too late.

Michael

I'd think that by using predominantly Green or Conscript troops, you could already simulate fairly brittle troops in this context.

Maybe some minor tweaks would be needed, but as long as you dialled down the number of Regulars ( and practically excluded levels above that ), you shouldn't be too far off.

[theforger]

4 minutes ago, mbarbaric said:

since we are daydreaming...

how about a fictional scenaryo set in europe in 80s?

warszaw pact vs nato plus yugoslavia - AWESOME

base game set up in germany . first mission taking over west berlin and then advance on west germany 

first expansion war in scandinavia

second expansion war in france

and my favorite third expansion that is prelude to all and is a proxy war in yugoslavia as warszaw pact attacks neutral yugoslavia to topple the regime after Tito's death. you'd have nato, warszaw and yugo forces everyone fighting against everyone weeehooo

+1

Black Sea my favourite title.  Although looking forward to starting the German Campaign ASAP. Must remember to take my time and savour like a fine wine.

[mbarbaric]

nah, that is too modern, too much computers... 80s that was still not so far from 2nd ww regarding technology but still with better equipment.

[Harry Speakup]

1 hour ago, kohlenklau said:

CM Korea 1950 with modules to take us through that entire war (police action) would be my wish!

I would imagine that a CM title set in a conflict that has been referred to as "The Forgotten War" would have less chance of appearing than a title on North Africa.

[Artemis258]

10 hours ago, mbarbaric said:

how about a fictional scenaryo set in europe in 80s?

warszaw pact vs nato plus yugoslavia - AWESOME

base game set up in germany . first mission taking over west berlin and then advance on west germany 

first expansion war in scandinavia

second expansion war in france

and my favorite third expansion that is prelude to all and is a proxy war in yugoslavia as warszaw pact attacks neutral yugoslavia to topple the regime after Tito's death. you'd have nato, warszaw and yugo forces everyone fighting against everyone weeehooo

CM: Fulda Gap? I'd pay for that, for sure! Early leopards, challengers! That'd be fun!

 

10 hours ago, kohlenklau said:

CM Korea 1950 with modules to take us through that entire war (police action) would be my wish!

 

I think Korea's a pretty logical next step sometime - after all it uses lots of the existing kit, it's wild enough to draw people's attention without being irrelevant, it involves US forces (always a selling point), it's not about to soothsay some future conflict (Black sea!)... In time, perhaps... 
Oh, and it's another war in a land of fermented cabbage. Seriously. That stuff is delicious. 


 

Edited April 1, 2016 by Artemis258

[Ithikial_AU]

17 hours ago, Michael Emrys said:

Perhaps BFC has been hesitant to try to model "tank fright". How many players would be happy to have the morale of their infantry drop through the floor and throw up their hands as soon as enemy tanks appear?

Michael

I don't think BFC would have to model anything in this respect. When a bunch of PzIII's come over the sandy ridge and all you've got is a line of infantry armed with Lee Enfields I'm sure the player will do it themselves.