CM: BS DAR Gnarls vs. Artemis258: Art begone...

[gnarly]

gnarly,

A T-90A in your underwear? If not, it sure looks about that close in your first set of (most welcome and unexpected) war comics.

I would have had zoom on, to ensure you could see both combatants clearly. Likely 600m range-ish I think

 

 But how is it you clearly lost an Oplot in the second set of panels, but no such thing is evident on your overhead view with casualties marked? I don't get it. Am pleased to see battlefield obscuration is a real tactical consideration.

Good question John, I've only been marking current enemy statuses on the overhead (Green = threat, Orange = mostly dead & Red for Dead). I haven't been marking my wrecks, but will add those next time.

 

Though you can see clearly the funeral pyre of the LC's HQ tank in the middle-back of my forces in the minute 45-44 overview.... And the 2nd platoon Oplot that dies after the prolonged duel, is the one with the white 'HIT: Reactive Armour' text.

[gnarly]

Minute 43-42 (note previous entry should have been 44-43)

 

Sigh.

 

This picture sums up my general frustration with Ukranian armour in the games I've used them in thus far. They generally seem incapable of seeing anything at all...

The tip of the spear turns into a charnel house of both 2nd platoon and the Comapny HQ. Bet you it was all that single T-90 as well; certainly seems to have been main gun rounds for all.

 

My arty fire starts dropping int he NW corner (top right).  That 30mmm BTR at the back of Arts forces is again spotted,  putting down fire (I think) on my units still on the north of the medium ridge.

At the end of the turn, foxholes and a truck are also  spotted on the road at the back of Art's line; likely ATGM team. Wonder if there is another T-90 somewhere there as well?; I had multiple tanks area firing on the known T-90 location, so I'll be impressed if it has dispensed with 2nd and Company HQ tanks by itself (or actually, highly unimpressed with the uselessness of Ukrainian armour, if it is the case).

For John K, current contacts marked in green, with question marks for 'lost' contacts. I've also marked the almost half of my tanks that are now burning wrecks. You can see my arty barrage top right.

 

At this point, it seems I ain't gonna see anything more from my current location, and the since 2nd platoon failed to see anything from even their advanced location (and very appropriately died for their utter ineptitude), sitting where i am is pointless.

 

So it's time for the original plan; charge some armour up to the western flanks of Big Hill, and if they survive whatever ATGM and tanks have LOS over the ford, whatever RPG teams are still on the hill, and whatever likely  mines Art has dropped round the southern ford, MAYBE they'll get some LOS onto Art's right flank.  That's an awful lot of maybes, and personally, this is gunna go to hell in a hand basket REAL QUICK.

Prophesising ahead of time; the jackasses in my 1st platoon tanks get their knickers in a knot trying to path-find across the ford, stall, and are destroyed piecemeal on my side of the ford. Any takers on that bet?

But I really don't have the patience in real life to sit still for another 6 minutes (= a week in real world time, at a turn a day) while my arty barrage finishes, and is redeployed for another suppression barrage on Big Hill. So here goes...

 

 

 

[A Canadian Cat]

But I really don't have the patience in real life to sit still for another 6 minutes (= a week in real world time, at a turn a day) while my arty barrage finishes, and is redeployed for another suppression barrage on Big Hill. So here goes...

no don't do it. Wait for the artillery. This is a defining moment. Are you a reckless commander of a careful commander.

[gnarly]

no don't do it. Wait for the artillery. This is a defining moment. Are you a reckless commander of a careful commander.

Today? Reckless and impatient it seems! My chariots have already been unleashed...

 

Oh, and I've just noticed a second tank sound contact perhaps 50m immediately south of the existing known one; I presume that explains the rapid demise of my forward tanks..

Edited February 18, 2016 by gnarly

[Bud Backer]

Oh my.. That had to be painful to watch - losing a platoon of tanks in a few moments. Ugh. 

[gnarly]

I have finally answered the cryptic riddle of how Oplots it takes to kill a T-90A.

FIVE!!!!

Four as sacrificial lambs to appease the gods of war, and one more to complete the fatal thrust...

 

At that rate, I hope Art hasn't too many T-90s left!! I've only got 5 alive, of which one I just discovered is non-mobile (in my pocket story, one of the 3rd platoon tanks actually took a RPG hit to its drive sprockets).

 

Edited February 19, 2016 by gnarly

[gnarly]

Minute 42-41

 

A minute of surprises!

The 1st Company HQ over-watching the center from just north of the road, does it best to avenge our fallen comrades. Initially putting down fire on those foxholes, it spots our nemesis, the T-90, and dispatches it with aplomb. FINALLY!

The battle scars of one tough tank:

 

Rotating back onto the foxholes, the resident mortar team (120mm?) is greeted with an airburst. By the turn end, 2 more groups of foxholes, trucks and another mortar team are located nearby.

 

Late in the turn, the Company HWQ tank also spots a couple of infantry retreating from that large copse of trees, and shares the love..

This is right on the end of the minute, but surely that's gotta hurt??

One very busy 60 seconds for the Company HQ tank!

 

Meanwhile, the two remaining tanks of 1st Platoon, and the only mobile one of 3rd platoon, deploy smoke, and (surprisingly) begin crossing the ford without resistance. Please tell me the Russians haven't got sea-mines???

Amazingly for me, these 3 came from different parts of the battlefield, deployed smoke mid-maneuver, and yet coordinated it all very well...

 

Elsewhere, sporadic rounds and some BTR fire suppress my troops in the Medium Ridge. Also my intense barrage ends onArt's right (only discernable result was the destruction of a truck; hopefully there is an associated weapon team spread over the landscape in meaty pieces. The FO doesn't have LOS or TRPs on the mortar foxholes, so not sure what I'll do with the arty yet, except Big Hill.

 

 

[Seedorf81]

Nice bold move on the right.

Your orange arrow shows an advance by using the long road, but it seems to me that your opponent would have that approach well covered. Did you consider sneaking your tanks through those sparsely wooded rough area's that are running parallel to the road?

 

[c3k]

Your screenshots are great. More booms would be better.

[gnarly]

Nice bold move on the right.

Your orange arrow shows an advance by using the long road, but it seems to me that your opponent would have that approach well covered. Did you consider sneaking your tanks through those sparsely wooded rough area's that are running parallel to the road?

 

After suppressing the various treelines on the big hill for the last 15 minutes with 3 platoons of tanks, I'm hoping there isn't much left up there likely to be a threat.

You are right about Art possibly having assets covering to road, but I've KABOOMED so many BTR's now, and I've still got arty raining down on the small farm at the back right of Art's forces, which is the main location with over-watch down the road, that I don't think there can be too much alive overwatching the road that is still a threat or not suppressed.

 

Yes it's a bold move, but I really don't have much choice; I simply can't get eyes onto the area around the now dead T-90 (which is in a slight depression, so a fantastic location for a platoon of hull-down T-90s. My Oplots have seen everything they can from there base of fire locations, and either neutralized them, or died trying (i.e. 2nd platoon).

 

I did think about moving up through the trees, but that seems to negate the benefits of the tanks (getting LOS fast and destroying threats), and makes it more likely any cowering RPG infantry get a lucky shot off unspotted.

 

My arrow though is slightly misleading; I am not in a hurry to push directly up the road NE into Art's lines; going to sit at the south end of that road for a few turns, and use the long-guns to their best effect. I may even push a tank east up through the trees onto the lower slopes of the Big Hill, to try to 'look-down' into that T-90 depression.  That will be a dangerous game...

[gnarly]

Your screenshots are great. More booms would be better.

Sheesh!!! Give a man an exploding T-90, and two airbursts over infantry, and he still wants more KABOOM! 

 

Nevertheless I will oblige, though unfortunately they aren't all of my doing.... 

[gnarly]

 Minute 41-40

 

One very busy 60 seconds for the Company HQ tank!

which is brought to a brutally quick  end by two hits barely 11 seconds apart killing the vehicle and both the turret's crew, followed by a third 5 seconds later that minces the driver as he attempts to bail.

The manual indicates that the T-90 autoloader can reload in 5-8 seconds, but the third shot suggests two tanks in play here?

 

 

This means my little army is now leaderless, losing both the Tactical Group and Company HQ tanks.... Effect?

Late in the minute, one of my ATGM teams spots another T-90 immediately south of the destroyed one; looking closely, they are both parked up in a tiny little depression (you can also see a BTR in the background).

 

Meanwhile the ford crossing proceeds smoothly, though two of the tanks get bogged for upwards of 30 seconds ( I didn't know that was possible in this game, but it's cool!), leaving the lead tank to sprint up to it's over watch position on that road alone.

My arty barrage is still ongoing on the farm in the far NE corner ( I was mistaken, there was just a  pregnant pause whilst the gunners took a vodka break..)

End of turn:

- Coupe of BTR contacts in the NE, missed by the arty

- A number infantry teams forced out in the open by my suppressive area  fire

- New T-90 contact in a hollow

 

My IFV's are maneuvering to put down fire on the remaining mortar foxholes in Art's center.

I'm adjusting the heavy arty mission to drop on the T-90 (it's just within my TRP's radius) in 2 minutes. The hollow it's in is going to be tough to crack; it can't be seen from my advanced Oplot, and if I move the tanks NE along the road, it's likely I'll lose a number of them before they get LOS. And I've a nasty feeling there is another T-90 or two in there...

Edited February 21, 2016 by gnarly

[gnarly]

Minute 40-39

After putting down some area fire on the presumed enemy infantry HQ location just east of the Medium Ridge, the two trail tanks join the lead Oplot on the road. The 2nd platoon HQ tank gets sprayed by a nearby AGS-30 team, stripping off quite a few exposed subsystems; the adjacent 1st platoon tanks knocks out the grenade launcher.

This maneuver team immediately spots and dispatches those two intermittent BTR contacts in the far NE; one the engaging tanks is the damaged 2nd platoon tank, so it's subsystem damage is not critical:

 

Turn end

I'd forgotten to mention that the 3rd IFV of 4th platoon, and its squad, have been on the 1st platoon baseline the whole time. Last turn I had them remount, and they are now following the footsteps of the maneuver team, with the intent of keeping the woodlines clear of pesky infantry with RPGs..

 

Still occasional mortar rounds falling at the north end of the medium ridge.

 

 

[Bud Backer]

It's going to be nail-biting to watch that IFV  make its way across! Nice shooting with these BTRs though!

[Abbasid111]

I hope that BMP makes it across the ford! Nice gamble with the Oplots.so far.

I fell your pain on playing UKR forces. i much as i enjoy playing the underdog (and they are No3 in this game) its frustrating trying to spot anything with your infantry at night or in less than perfect visibility. Even an advanced tank like the Oplot seems to have less capable sensors then a T-90. I recently had 3 Oplots in light fog with perfect LOS and target commands on 3 T-90s at the end of one turn. Guess who fired first???

How is the LOS from your bogged Oplot?

 

[gnarly]

 

How is the LOS from your bogged Oplot?

 

It has pretty good LOS  east and north-easterly, but the smoke screen at the ford from the Oplots, and now the BMP-2, has rendered it blind for some minutes now..

 

 

It's going to be nail-biting to watch that IFV  make its way across! Nice shooting with these BTRs though!

I am just dreading the next rounds from an as yet unseen T-90. And fervently hoping for the arty onto that known T-90 to come soon (should be the next minute?).

 

There was also a brief spot by one of my ATGM teams on an RPG team amongst the highest trees on big hill, so I am keen to get more supressive fire down up there (from the IFV and others).

Edited February 22, 2016 by gnarly

[c3k]

The three Oplots bring a lot of oomph over the river. Nice hook.

[gnarly]

The three Oplots bring a lot of oomph over the river. Nice hook.

Thanks @c3k, they do indeed. and their coaxials are getting a work out; there are quite  few little RPG teams lurking about. Seems I need to do a thorough area sanitisation..

[gnarly]

Maths-wise, having destroyed:
 

• 1 x T-90,
• 9 x BTR's,
• 2+ squads and
• a number of weapons team

And with intermittent visuals on another T-90, 2 more BTRs, and a scattering of weapons teams, I am thinking Art's started the battle with:
 

• a platoon of 4 x T-90's (where the hell are the other two???),
• a mechanized infantry platoon (4 BTR's),
• a reinforced weapons platoon (4+ BTR's),
• a Command team (incl. FO) (2 or 3 BTRs) and
• 4 x organic mortars in foxholes

My losses thus far:
 

• 5 Oplots (+ 1 Oplot immobilised but still in a good hull-down LOS location)
• 2 BMP-2's (weapons platoon)

Edited February 22, 2016 by gnarly

[John Kettler]

gnarly,

You have a genius for picking great screenshots. I see you've now turned his left flank and are now positioned to roll him up, despite taking some painful losses in the process. I know that the US has supplied a considerable amount of NVGs (maybe even TWS) to Ukraine. Has BFC factored this in, together with the wholly expected further massive issue in the context of a full-on invasion? Would think that might help redress what would appear to be a major shortfall. Additionally, it's not difficult at all to imagine the US could supply so many sets the Ukraine Army might be better off in this regard than the Russian Army! How many NVGs will a C-17 hold?  The bogging while fording is entirely reasonable. The set pice peep show Operation Dneiper had something similar happen despite special tank channels of reinforced concrete laid on the river bed. A tank stalled, briefly blocking the advance of an entire column "fording" the river in that "lane" of traffic! The mortar pit, at least by WW II standards, is a joke. I've seen German 8 cm versions in which there's practically nothing visible. I recognize this may be one of those wretched mesh issues such as the wholly lamentable trench visuals.

Regards,

John Kettler

[gnarly]

I've got quite a few minutes to catch up on, but they've mostly been a little melee of tanks versus multiple RPG teams around my Oplot maneuver group.

 

 

But at this point, I am getting thoroughly rope-able with the Oplots complete inability to see anything, even when stationary and overwatching in the correct direction. Like, throwing keyboard through screen level frustration....

 

So, looking for some advice, because this match has degenerated into a cat and mouse between my last two mobile Oplots, who are complete morons, and (I think?) Arts only other T-90. And I'm pretty damn fed-up with these tanks inability to see squat; it's very likely they'll get picked off piece meal, even with perfect LOS onto the T-90.

 

(Can you sense how %&%^*& frustrated I am with this??)

So, current situation at minute 32-31; my remaining mobile Oplots have blue (left hand) and grey (right-hand) LOS onto the T-90's eventual firing potion.

 

 

It noses out of the afore-mentioned depression it's been skulking, and out of the smoke of my on-going heavy 152mm barrage (surely the continued nearby 152mm explosions would have to some degree hampered the crews efficiency?? we are talking 6 rounds a minute within 50m proximity here).

 

Anyways, my tanks are static, yet the T-90 shuffles out of the smoke, lasers and fires at my left hand tank. Neither of these idiots even sees the T-90; my left-hander reverses to cover. Of course, I would have understood if it was my tank moving forward and getting picked of by a stationary overwatching enemy tank (which is what happened to Oplot #3). So to have planned to have two tanks in static overwatch, and ye still get shot at by an invisible advancing tank?  GAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!

 

 

 

So I am half inclined to just Quick both tanks forward, and hope that one of them actually gets a spot and hits the T-90 (which it won't), with the assumption the other one will become a sacrificial junk heap (which they both will). And get this crap over with.

My other inclination is to reverse both of these morons back, not to even bother trying to reposition them with hull-down, cos they'll still get picked off without seeing anything. And let the arty barrage continue.  My immobilized Oplot in my backfield, plus a couple of ATGM teams intermittent LOS onto the T-90's current location, but the arty impact dust is making that very intermittent.  Translation, they may spot it (as they have been) but won't have LOS long enough to engage. Unlikely to resolve anything, and probably be sitting here till the arty runs out of shells..

 

Any pointers?

 

Yours in thorough frustration.

 

 

 

Edited February 25, 2016 by gnarly

[sburke]

I'd say patience.  Don't try to force it, that rarely works.  Back off and let the arty do it's work and let the dust settle.  That dust is likely going to make things worse for you and who knows, maybe a lucky round will take it out.

.

[gnarly]

Many thanks for the calming influence @sburke; couple of the FGM lads are keen to see an unbuttoned 'bum-rush'! 

[Abdolmartin]

If you had more than two Oplots and were absolutely positive that he had only one T-90 left, I would suggest rushing forward, but when you have only two tanks, it's quite risky. Just as sburke said, you should consolidate and wait for the arty. If you can immobilise it with arty, then your job will get a lot easier.

And in the screenshot you showed us from the T-90's perspective, it's quite clear why the Oplots are failing to see the enemy tank; the T-90 is effectively in a reverse slope position, and the Oplot is already pretty damn bad at spotting, let alone with the enemy in a reverse slope.

[gnarly]

Thanks @Abdolmartin, I've rolled back both the tanks, opened them up for better close range visibility, and will go conservative for a few turns. Maybe my arty and some area fire from the back field will push that tank out of his hole...