Why Isn't Gun Jamming A Part Of This Game?

[Col Deadmarsh]

I pose this question as I've noticed that MGs for both infantry and tanks can constantly fire on a target without any possibility of jamming at all. I've seen opponents just fire turn after turn to effectively disrupt enemy troops knowing that:

1. They have plenty of ammo to do this with turn after turn
2. There's no penalty for doing so

Prolonged firing of an MG in particular would cause a jam. Including this in the game would not only be more realistic but prevent gamey use of this weapon against opponents.

Thoughts?

 

[A Canadian Cat]

I thought the consensus of reviewing the literature was that jamming was very rare and easily fixed.  I could be rembering wrong. Do you have documents outlining jamming as a significant issue?

[Thewood1]

Neat little search feature up there...

[MikeyD]

I recall reading something a loooong time ago that said Browning .50 cal HMG could only handle 40-50 rounds being fired continuous before needing either to cool down or have the barrel swapped out. The gun came with asbestos mittens, the screaming-hot barrel would weight about 50 pounds by itself. It sounds like a nightmare.

I've even heard of tank main guns overheating from constant firing and the vehicles being withdrawn from combat to cool down. How many rounds could a MG42 fire before needing to swap out barrels? I want to say something like 750 rounds, less than a minute of firing. Overheating/jamming/barrel changing is a very complex weapon-specific issue and opens a whole can of worms. US M1919 lmg couldn't swap out the barrel. M1917 HMG came with a water jacket for continuous fire. I believe (not sure) German tank mgs used a heavier barrel than infantry weapons. Multiply these individual weapons quirks across the whole franchise, its sounds like it would be a giant pain to introduce historically representative cool-down periods/weapons jams.

That being said, I've noticed lately that when I tell a tank to 'target light' a building then forget about it for a few turns when I come back to the vehicle he's not firing on the target with quite the same level of enthusiasm as originally. An overheated mg?  

[Warts 'n' all]

Although MG jamming wasn't a major problem for me in CMx1, just something that I got used to and took for granted. If it was re-introduced I imagine that we would get endless posts about the way the game handled it. So perhaps things are best left as they are.

[RockinHarry]

Hm...we have some overheating feature for off board artillery, where rates of fire would be decreased to sustainable rates if applicable. Maybe the game has something like that inbuilt to adjust rates of fire for other weapons as well? Yet there´s some other causes for gun jamming. Imagine germans in russia, winter 1941 i.e 

[JonS]

we have some overheating feature for off board artillery, where rates of fire would be decreased to sustainable rates if applicable.

That doesn't represent overheating, or weapon failure, though. It's just that pretty much all artillery has a "burst fire" capability (for want of a better term) which can only be maintained for a minute or three, and a much lower ROF that can be sustained indefinitely. That, I believe, is what you're seeing when the ROF of off-map artillery slows down.

[Firehead]

Prolonged firing of an MG in particular would cause a jam. Including this in the game would not only be more realistic but prevent gamey use of this weapon against opponents.

 

The majority of malfunctions from machine guns are a result of debris getting in the feed paws on the feed tray cover. This is usually a result of the belt getting mud/dirt on it. Plenty of lubricants(CLP) on the bolt and cycling mechanism can essentially negate carbon buildup from sustained fire. In addition, that carbon build up usually only affects gas operated machineguns, since the gas block gets clogged with carbon thus affecting gasflow to fully cycle the weapon. Most machineguns in the 40s were delayed blowback or blowback operated, the exceptions being the BAR, FG42, and Bren(a couple of others I think as well)

The gun came with asbestos mittens, the screaming-hot barrel would weight about 50 pounds by itself. It sounds like a nightmare.

 

It is difficult. There is also a clamp like tool that fits over the barrel allowing easier switching of barrels. Even with the asbestos mittens it is insanely hot after 100 rounds.

Machinegun jams are easily fixed, it often just requires cycling of the bolt, or POPS. Pull the bolt to the rear, observe ejection of belt and cartridge, push the bolt back forward, and squeeze to resume firing. Occasionally, with disintegrating belts(MG34/42, M2) you have to open the feed tray cover and reload the machinegun. Takes only a minute to correct a malfunction. Even with a ruptured case, a trained MG team should be able to fix it using a case extractor in short order.

[slysniper]

I liked the jamb concept in the game features. I think it should be in the game again.

I did not think it was totally correct in CMX1, but at least they had something.

I like the concept that prolonged firing should impact the weapon. Also units moving should have higher risk, because they are more likely to get their weapon ammo dirty.

 

But CMX1 did seem to make jambs last too long.  In most cases, it should not be over a minute.

Not unless the weapon is being abused,

 

[RockinHarry]

That doesn't represent overheating, or weapon failure, though. It's just that pretty much all artillery has a "burst fire" capability (for want of a better term) which can only be maintained for a minute or three, and a much lower ROF that can be sustained indefinitely. That, I believe, is what you're seeing when the ROF of off-map artillery slows down.

I was just refering to the game manual V3.0, page 68:

"Overheating - green/red dots indicate how hot the artillery barrels are getting. 
When all dots go red, the battery has to hold down its rate of fire to no greater 
than its “sustainable” ROF.  Otherwise it is free to use “maximum” ROF (if the 
mission wants it)."

I meant to say that maybe BFC resolves ingame ROF for all weapons silently down to degrees where jamming from overheating would be rather unlikely. Leaves just other probable causes like weapon reliability, dirt, environmental conditions (air temperature) and soldier experience levels that could be considered for jamming probabilities if that would be a feature reintroduced in CMX any time. It´s not a priority feature on my wish list though.

[A Canadian Cat]

I meant to say that maybe BFC resolves ingame ROF for all weapons silently down to degrees where jamming from overheating would be rather unlikely. Leaves just other probable causes like weapon reliability, dirt, environmental conditions (air temperature) and soldier experience levels that could be considered for jamming probabilities if that would be a feature reintroduced in CMX any time. It´s not a priority feature on my wish list though.

This is how I see it. It BFC introduced an more nuanced jamming mechanism I would be happy to have it but there are lots of things I would like to see before that, the top three of which are in my sig

[Placebo]

I seem to recall when this was discussed a long time a go, that the mg fire rate/effectiveness was reduced slightly to simulate the occasional jams that would happen over the course of a battle.  I would prefer to have the gun stop occasionally but I think this was the work around.  

[LukeFF]

I seem to recall when this was discussed a long time a go, that the mg fire rate/effectiveness was reduced slightly to simulate the occasional jams that would happen over the course of a battle.

No, that's not the case. 

[StieliAlpha]

If I recall my Bundeswehr-times right:

During company MG training, we had about 100 guys, shooting with 5 MG3 , 30 rounds each, trying to achieve controlled 3-round bursts. I.e., during one training, one MG fired about 600 rounds more or less continously, with say 1 minute breaks when the shooter changed. Obviously, the guns were kept under controlled conditions and were fairly well maintained.

The MG3 was a "slowed down" version of the MG42 (1600 rounds per minute vs 2400 rounds per minute).

To end a long prolouge: I recall a handfull of jammings in each training. Say 5, which were cleared usually within a few seconds.

My conclusion: I would rate that "neglectible".