force pick advice needed

[Doug Williams]

I'm mainly a WW2 guy, so all this modern stuff is new to me.

Stagler and I have played a few CMBS PBEMs and I believe we are 50/50. I have usually picked the Yanks, except for one time we had a Russian (me) Vs Ukraine battle.

I'll be the first to admit that I don't know WTF I'm doing in Modern.

Stagler wants the Yanks in our latest game (small meeting engagement), which starts today. I'm Ivan.

This is the map:

Any advice on force pick and/or strategy?

Like I said, I'm a modern noob. All I know is that the Abrams and Javelin are good.

[Mord]

STAY AWAY FROM GREEN RUSSIANS! Regular or above only. Actually I wouldn't take anything below Veteran. I had the worst *** kicking I have ever had in CM experimenting with an all green force. I'd also stick with the latest model Bmps...the Bmp2 sucks when I use it.

 

 

Mord.

Edited June 29, 2015 by Mord

[MOS:96B2P]

When I play as the Russians I like to start with the Russian Battalion Tactical Group (BMP) from the armored tab as the base unit.  I then modify it to fit the situation (attack or defend normally)  

 

I like T-90AMs for tanks.

 

The Khrizantema-S Tank destroyer, if used correctly can be good.

 

ADA: Get a Tunguska.  Also buy a few Igla-S to back up the Tunguska.  

 

One Zala 421-08 UAV (Only vulnerable to AAA which the US does not have / needs air controller)

 

Air Support: Frogfoot SU25

 

I have read that the BMP 2M may be better than the 3M if you keep a scout team in the vehicle to take advantage of the spotting system.

 

Good luck. 

                      

[Kieme(ITA)]

Oh, nice map, that village is going to be perfect for the russian player.

 

This is my two cents, just my view:

 

considering that infantry has a lot of cover and concealment there, I'd pick a very strong infantry force, something in the order of 3 platoons of mechanized infantry plus supports (if you play a medium size). At least a couple of them would be MTLB transported, to save points, main idea woul be to deliver to the urban area the troops as fast as possible, then the MTLBs could be retreated. A few BMP-3 wouldn't be bad, as they could be used as fire support. One tunguska to be sure, but I wouldn't mind even two of them, considering how useful can be in hitting enemy infantry. Artillery, nothing less than 120mm rounds (smaller arty is much less efficient against troops inside buildings), possibly 152mm. I'd keep the smoke rounds for potential missions after the battle has started. A set of TRPs is essential, because of how slow RU arty is. A Zala or two are also very important to point out where the enemy manouvers.

Then, I'd pick as many T-72BM3 as possible and use them behind the infantry and in coordination with the Zala(s) to get around and behind the US units once I know exactly where they are and what they are doing (in coordination with smoke screens to create confusion).

 

Oh, if your force is small, I'd invest on troops more than IFVs, that's why the APCs such as the MTLBs. Not the BTR because they would be much slower on mixed terrain, and will take 1 to 3 minutes more to reach the same spots. You should try to take as much ground as possible in order to take advantage of the cover houses give.

Edited June 29, 2015 by Kieme(ITA)

[Doug Williams]

Wow, thanks guys! I'm going to have to look most of those vehicles up. No, I haven't read the manual, lol.

 

In past games, Stagler has taken out tanks and AVFs with very precise, very short duration arty strikes. What do I need to purchase in order to do that? A UAV? I confess I've never bought one before....

[Jim1954]

The uav would help you to see but he is using precision arty strikes. Its an option under what kind of strike, like when calling smoke. The asset only gets 1 round/tube, and they come in with no spotting rounds and a minimal wait time.120mm and above have this option, iirc.

[Kieme(ITA)]

Given the map I wouldn't invest in khrizantemas.

[Bud Backer]

The uav would help you to see but he is using precision arty strikes. Its an option under what kind of strike, like when calling smoke. The asset only gets 1 round/tube, and they come in with no spotting rounds and a minimal wait time.120mm and above have this option, iirc.

I'd just add that Russian precision arty requires a laser designator, unlike US, so make sure you have FOO's and air controllers for that purpose.

[Jim1954]

Yeah, it,s a little harder with the Russians and a lot less flexible. Great fun when it all comes together, though.

[Doug Williams]

I'd just add that Russian precision arty requires a laser designator, unlike US, so make sure you have FOO's and air controllers for that purpose.

 

So, if I buy a UAV, will it be enough if the UAV can see the target, or do I need to have an FO with eyes directly on the target?

[Sublime]

BMP2M iirc is the only model with citv and has dual launch racks for Kornets. I take them over 3Ms now. i also buy a few man portable At14s perhaps an At13 or 2 because theyre so flexible as far as setup time even in buildings

[Jim1954]

You will be able to see what is out in the open with the uav but you need to have a unit with a.laser designator to call in prescision artillery strikes. You should check the manual to see exactly which Russian units can do that. UAV's dont see things inbuildings very well either.

[Jim1954]

You will be able to see what is out in the open with the uav but you need to have a unit with a.laser designator to call in prescision artillery strikes. You should check the manual to see exactly which Russian units can do that. UAV's dont see things inbuildings very well either.

[Jim1954]

You will be able to see what is out in the open with the uav but you need to have a unit with a.laser designator to call in prescision artillery strikes. You should check the manual to see exactly which Russian units can do that. UAV's dont see things inbuildings very well either.

Its all on page 12 of the manual.

[agusto]

I just opened the QB purchase screen and for the 5350 popints you get you cant buy much actually. I would purchase the following setup:

 

 

Note: all units are Regular, High, Fit, 0 Leadership, Mortars are On Map. Of the T-90s, 3 are Veterans.

The Tunguskas and the 2 additional T-90AMs are purchased as Single Vehicles, the Air Controller as specialist team. Also dont forget the Zala at the bottom! It' s worth it.

 

EDIT: Someone is certainly going to comment on my choice of a BTR-82A based formation instead of a BMP-2/3 one. I chose the BTR-82As because they are simply about 50-70% cheaper than their tracked cousins and the only real drawback they have compared to the BMP-2 is the lack of ATGMs. The map also looks like there is going to be a lot of close combat/MOUT happening, so Doug probably wont miss the ATGMs anyways. I think he is better off with 3 Infantry platoons in BTR-82As and 5 T-90AMs instead of 2 platoons in BMP-2s and 3 T-90AMs.

Edited June 29, 2015 by agusto

[Lethaface]

The uav would help you to see but he is using precision arty strikes. Its an option under what kind of strike, like when calling smoke. The asset only gets 1 round/tube, and they come in with no spotting rounds and a minimal wait time.120mm and above have this option, iirc.

 

Actually you can use all available tubes but the mission gots to be a point mission.

 

Edit to add that you need to use the FOO (with the laser designator) to call in the UAV first, upon which you can target artillery inside the UAV observed area. IIRC Chris has posted some neat tutorial video's on youtube on how to do this.

Edited June 29, 2015 by Lethaface

[agusto]

Any advice on force pick and/or strategy?

 

If you choose the force i adviced you, your main AT asset is going to be your force of 5 T-90s. Their job will be to destroy your opponents M1A2 and to kill the bulk of the enemy infantry. Regarding the M1A2, dont try to take on them 1on1. Use your Zala drone to locate them and then attack them with a numerically overwhelming attack of your T90s. The BTR-82As will - at best - scratch some of the paint off an M1A2 MBT, so dont even think of using them as AT weapons, but given the MOUT terrain of the map you are going to play, they will be usefull vs. any US APC/IFV your opponent can buy. The BTRs dont have any long range ATGMs, but their 30mm cannon fire will go through a Bradleys frontal armor like a knife through hot butter.

[Lethaface]

I just opened the QB purchase screen and for the 5350 popints you get you cant buy much actually. I would purchase the following setup:

 

 

Note: all units are Regular, High, Fit, 0 Leadership, Mortars are On Map. Of the T-90s, 3 are Veterans.

The Tunguskas and the 2 additional T-90AMs are purchased as Single Vehicles, the Air Controller as specialist team. Also dont forget the Zala at the bottom! It' s worth it.

 

EDIT: Someone is certainly going to comment on my choice of a BTR-82A based formation instead of a BMP-2/3 one. I chose the BTR-82As because they are simply about 50-70% cheaper than their tracked cousins and the only real drawback they have compared to the BMP-2 is the lack of ATGMs. The map also looks like there is going to be a lot of close combat/MOUT happening, so Doug probably wont miss the ATGMs anyways. I think he is better off with 3 Infantry platoons in BTR-82As and 5 T-90AMs instead of 2 platoons in BMP-2s and 3 T-90AMs.

 

Agusto the picture you posted isn't loading for me.

Regarding your recommendation of the BTR I agree the map doesn't look very ATGM friendly.

As for force pick something I would go for personally is some troops with demo charges, as it can at times be very worthwhile to be able to breach into a house from a direction of your liking (while giving potential occupants a bad time). Also I would use some small RPG teams in a ambush role (on hide with small covered arc, unhide when opportune). 

[Kieme(ITA)]

Remember that wheeled APC will take longer to reach any given point compared to tracked APC as long as mixed terrain is concerned. Wheeled APC will shine if they are allowed to use paved roads.

If a wheeled APC takes 3 minutes to cover some 1 km of rough terrain (fields and grass, in perfect conditions), a tracked APC will take 2.

 

The idea of Lethaface of small RPGs as guerrilla elements is great. I remember a battle where I wanted a screen force in a forest, just to slow down any enemy advance, I took a normal Ukrainian mech. infantry platoon, removed all units but the commander, added two RPG, two RPK-74 and loaded them in a single APC. the force didn't had much success (I should have kept them deeper in the forest), but the concept was good.

Edited June 29, 2015 by Kieme(ITA)

[Bud Backer]

Remember that wheeled APC will take longer to reach any given point compared to tracked APC as long as mixed terrain is concerned. Wheeled APC will shine if they are allowed to use paved roads.

If a wheeled APC takes 3 minutes to cover some 1 km of rough terrain (fields and grass, in perfect conditions), a tracked APC will take 2.

Yes, in our game you taught me that very well!

[cool breeze]

I just opened the QB purchase screen and for the 5350 popints you get you cant buy much actually. I would purchase the following setup:

 

 

Note: all units are Regular, High, Fit, 0 Leadership, Mortars are On Map. Of the T-90s, 3 are Veterans.

The Tunguskas and the 2 additional T-90AMs are purchased as Single Vehicles, the Air Controller as specialist team. Also dont forget the Zala at the bottom! It' s worth it.

 

EDIT: Someone is certainly going to comment on my choice of a BTR-82A based formation instead of a BMP-2/3 one. I chose the BTR-82As because they are simply about 50-70% cheaper than their tracked cousins and the only real drawback they have compared to the BMP-2 is the lack of ATGMs. The map also looks like there is going to be a lot of close combat/MOUT happening, so Doug probably wont miss the ATGMs anyways. I think he is better off with 3 Infantry platoons in BTR-82As and 5 T-90AMs instead of 2 platoons in BMP-2s and 3 T-90AMs.

I was going to suggest the BTR route when I aw you already did.  I find them by far the best deal when I want a good amount of infantry especially on the defense.  The spotting is pretty bad but I don't honestly notice that much because I usually use em at very short range, say behind the buildings the infantry they carried are infesting, but covering the crossroad they are ready to ambush.  I try to make em just a big gun in the infantry squad laying low till the right time as much as possible.  With all the money you save on the btrs vs bmps you can buy more tanks (or btrs with more inf).  Plus the ATGM units that come in the btr groups are great.  bmps are more cool on the attack tho, style points count.

 

The BMPs and BTRs seem to me more Fire Support Vehicles that Fighting Vehicles.  The Btr give more fire support for the price, and it leves more points for the real fighting vehicles. 

Edited June 29, 2015 by cool breeze

[Doug Williams]

@agusto Would you please repost the picture of the force pick? Won't load.

[Wicky]

[agusto]

Hmmm maybe it' s too large for the forum, i left it at 1920x1080 because i though the text would be too difficult to read if i scaled it down. Here is a direct link to the image:

 

http://s22.postimg.org/88cw0sjvz/forces.jpg

 

Just open the link, you should see it in your browser then. And let me know if the link works for you now, it' s the first time i have used this particular image host.

[Doug Williams]

@agusto That worked. Thanks. :-)