Jump to content

Whats wrong with MIA and Broken units


Recommended Posts

Hi !

A general problem we have in CMx2 is that even after you are able to force enemy troops to retreat from a position they will just run back a few hundred meters or to the map edge, there they stay most of the time till the end of the battle if you dont kill them (which is easy because they mostly just lay in the open).
Units that have "broken" morale status for multiple turns and are x meter away from the map edge and have no friendly HQ unit near them should be removed from the map and counted as MIA (routed) in the AAR !
That would be more realistic and remove the "hey we are demoralized lets just lay in the open for the the last ten turns" units that you see everytime after reviewing the map.

Edited by Wiggum15
Link to comment
Share on other sites

What if the battle lasts longer? And you can get an hq near the broken units and rally them? Then, if they'd evaporated, you'd have lost them.

 

The disappearing surrendered men simulate that they've been captured and escorted back (or just told to march that way).

 

Laying in the open may not be the best behavior. But, you're assuming knowledge of how the endgame will play if you want them to disappear at a certain time.

 

(Or, put an exit zone on the map. I'd think they'd run out, through it, if they get too demoralized.)

 

Ken

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Yes you would have lost them but that would be a good thing for a more realistic gameplay.

The rout recovery would take place outside of the CM scale of battles when a whole formation is forced to retreat/rout and once in a safe spot starts to recovers cohesion and stragglers would return to their unit.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

If broken units disappeared that would make palying vs. the AI even easier. I like Kens idea with the exit zone though.

 

But shooting Broken troops lying out in to open waiting to be killed is not harder in any way, you will maybe loose one or two guys to such stragglers but thats it.

Anyway i dont think BFC will ever rework the moral system for the CMx2 games...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree that extremely demoralised troops should first try to hide, then try to make it to the map edge, maybe in bounds with hiding pauses at cover. Then at the map edge, they should count as MIA. I don't like the "turkey shoot" that sometimes takes place as you advance past previously demoralised positions that would have slinked away in real life.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Bulletpoint by "turkey shoot" are you talking about playing against the AI?  I really only test against the AI and when I play a human that kind of thing does not happen.  I quite like the way broken troops behave as a human commander.  Well by like I mean it feels like I think it should - it is a true PITA to get them to do anything of value :)  Which is good.  As the human player I can still get them to do a few jobs for me so I like how it plays now. 

 

Now if the AI is leaving these guys lying around it would be an improvement for them to do something else.  Like find cover and the like.  It would take some work on the part of the AI that issues orders as per the AI plan.  The TacAI works fine when the broken troops are controlled by a human so the AI would need away to issue orders to the unit that are a bit different than following the plan - which they are likely incapable of doing.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

A lot of your issues, Wiggum, result from the near absence of surrendering in the game. Troops throw up their hands in tiny groups in CM, usually one or two. If at all. Not a criticism of the game, simulating it is likely exceedingly tricky to implement due to contextual factors. But one could estimate that half or more of the KIAs at end of game are actually POWs. Or they routed off the map.

 

There's a scenario in CMFI, Primosole Bridge. Your heavily armed British paras must annihilate the wobbly Italian force before the Germans arrive. Which they do, inflicting great carnage. In reality, the Italians promptly surrendered en masse. Or fled. They weren't suicidal.

 

On the CM battlefield cornered or outnumbered troops fight to the death.

Edited by Childress
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@Bulletpoint by "turkey shoot" are you talking about playing against the AI?  I really only test against the AI and when I play a human that kind of thing does not happen.  I quite like the way broken troops behave as a human commander.  

 

Yes, I forgot to add that I only speak as single-player. Hadn't considered that it will play out differently against a human opponent.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

How about making fleeing troops flee until they find a spot without LOS to any enemy. Then they stay there. If they spot enemies later, they will fall back futher. If they hit the limit of the playing field, they turn into MIA.

 

In that way, you would still as a human player be able to get a commander to their position and rally them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I would be OK with them fleeing out of LOS once they start fleeing but I don't want them to do that just for spotting the enemy.  Broken troops still have something to contribute.  I still use them in my battles.  I just keep them back a bit and join in the fire fight.  If they don't take much fire they will contribute to your overall fire power.  They are just very skittish - which is the point.  So something like what you suggest could work.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I seem to recall, based on the Demo, that Shock Force featured a Routing routine. MIAs were designated by a red exclamation point. The Red Force was more prone to melting away than US troops, logically enough. That mechanic was present as a manual relic on the initial release of CMBN but not implemented. Could be wrong, though. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Routing is still mentioned in the engine manual (I checked CMBN and CMBS). I do not recall it being removed but I do vaguely recall that it is not a common thing to have happen.  I am pretty sure I have never noticed it.  I am not sure what its status is.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

Routing is gone and was replaced with Surrendering. The descroption of the Rout feature was removed in the latest engine manual versions and replaced with a description of Surrendering.

Yeah this is one of the disturbing things when you go back and play CMSF.  You hit an enemy team downing a few members, but you know you missed a couple.  So you spend the next few minutes suppressing the area and getting a unit in position to eliminate the survivors...then you get to the position and.... where is everybody?  I then usually panic expecting them to pop up now and hit my guys until i remember...doh!! they routed, they are gone... I hope.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Unfortunately, your content contains terms that we do not allow. Please edit your content to remove the highlighted words below.
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

 Share

×
×
  • Create New...