Col Deadmarsh Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 I'm not sure if anyone's ever asked this question as I can't find it in a search for the topic. Can you do this or not? It seems like shooting over low bocage is doable but what about high bocage? Can you shoot through that with a tank or not? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoMac Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 (edited) Yes, just need to be close enough to Hedge... Joe Edited February 11, 2015 by JoMc67 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 see second post on the page. http://community.battlefront.com/topic/103004-the-battle-for-hamel-vallee-an-aar/page-3 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 There have been occasions reported when some vehicles will not fire through bocage. I don't recall whether they got resolved, but they concerned vehicles where the weapon was mounted toward the rear of the chassis, like Marders and Recce halftracks, where the game seemed to sense that the long front of the vehicle prevented the weapon being close enough to "see" through the foliage. As I say, this might have been unintended, and later addressed, but I offer it as a note of caution. Especially if you're playing a demo which is likely an older version that might not have reached the patch stage that does fix it if it has been fixed. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warts 'n' all Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Given the height of some of the foliage-topped earthern embankments within the bocage country, especially along the sunken lanes, it seems spot on that certain vehicles couldn't bring their guns to bear on a target. Moving in any closer to the hedge would have meant that their barrel would be pointing up in the air, and the belly of the vehicle would be providing a nice juicy target for the enemy. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warts 'n' all Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 see second post on the page. http://community.battlefront.com/topic/103004-the-battle-for-hamel-vallee-an-aar/page-3 I've not seen Divisional insignia on the UI before, is that your own mod? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Col Deadmarsh Posted February 11, 2015 Author Share Posted February 11, 2015 Yes, just need to be close enough to Hedge... Joe The problem I find myself currently in is that the hexes in this game are too large to allow you to direct the vehicle exactly where you need to be. In a current game I'm playing, my AFV is too far away from the bocage to get his nose in there. Ordering the vehicle to drive closer isn't possible because the next allowable point is across the bocage. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rinaldi Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 (edited) The problem I find myself currently in is that the hexes in this game are too large to allow you to direct the vehicle exactly where you need to be. In a current game I'm playing, my AFV is too far away from the bocage to get his nose in there. Ordering the vehicle to drive closer isn't possible because the next allowable point is across the bocage. For the longest time I thought you could target individual pixels as well with area target; but its limited to hexes yes. Don't worry, I've noticed with AFVs and infantry fire alike that if there's a potential contact in a hex, the area fire gravitates towards it. Try it anyways, you may not be disappointed. If you are, try area firing for a full turn; the AFV will usually walk fire all over the hex. As for your other issue, unfortunately that's hedgerow hell for you. Some hedges are too thick and awkward to allow the turret to traverse. Do you have any engineers handy? Try blowing a small hole and angling the tank at a 45 degree to get clear LOS while not exposing it to anti-tank fire. Edited February 11, 2015 by Rinaldi 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badger73 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 I've not seen Divisional insignia on the UI before, is that your own mod? I believe those to be the most exceptional and exceedingly superlative "Mord's CMBN Base Game Unit Portraits V. 4.0" found in the repository at URL = http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=314&func=fileinfo&id=2921 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warts 'n' all Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 I believe those to be the most exceptional and exceedingly superlative "Mord's CMBN Base Game Unit Portraits V. 4.0" found in the repository at URL = http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=314&func=fileinfo&id=2921 Thanks for that Badger. I'll take a look. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 The problem I find myself currently in is that the hexes in this game are too large to allow you to direct the vehicle exactly where you need to be. In a current game I'm playing, my AFV is too far away from the bocage to get his nose in there. Ordering the vehicle to drive closer isn't possible because the next allowable point is across the bocage.No that is not it. Vehicles have free rein in the game for where their way points go. To get a tank to be able to fire through bocage you want to position the way point just at the burm of the bocage line. Then the vehicle should drive as far as it can and stop. There have been a few times where vehicles have not cooperated with me and I found that backing up and trying again slight to one side has fixed the problem. I think in one game I finally gave up and backed up and moved 15m down the road and tried there which worked. No idea why. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Migo441 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Right, the short story is that it's very possible and the longer story is that it's a bit finicky. It can be very frustating in WEGO (in particular) because it takes an entire planning + movie cycle to figure out that your placement either doesn't allow you to fire through the bocage at all or not in the direction you want. But even that kind of makes sense in that bocage (in RL) isn't of uniform height and thickness so one spot not working and needing to find another is realistic.I believe I saw an estimate somewhere that you should only count on being able to fire in a ~ 10 degree arc with respect to a perpendicular LOF from the bocage face. (Meaning you won't be able to pull up in one corner of a square-ish bocage lined field and fire to the opposite corner diagonally.) 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Another thing that will stymie you is trees in the bocage. Short tree trunks don't show up in "Tree trunks only" mode. I find that a tree in the centre of the AS will prevent a vehicle from getting any LOF through the hedge. Further, bocage on the diagonal is more restrictive of target angle than orthoganally-placed hedgerow. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Canadian Cat Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Oh yeah, really good point. I have had bocage fighting sadness when the trees were at trunks only because I could not figure out why it was not working. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChappyCanuck Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Sometimes I have had problems with tanks firing through bocage, but with Churchills it is even worse. I just assumed it was because of the short barrel on the Churchill that caused this. During one battle I kept positioning and re-positioning my Churchills against the bocage....reverse, move forward: no LOF...reverse, move forward: no LOF. Eventually I just stopped trying. Anyone else notice this with Churchills? 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
womble Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 Haven't seen it myself, but yeah, Churchills have very long front decks. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warts 'n' all Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 That is good point womble made about the front deck. Just take a look at one from a side on view. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odin Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I think it's a good thing that vehicles have a problem firing through bocage, in fact I think it should be more problematic in CMBN than it currently is. I live in a part of the UK where the hedgerows are thick and in summer, when their foliage is in full bloom, I believe most gun sights would struggle to see through without a crew first hacking away at the hedge. Add to that the steep earth embankments underneath many of the older hedgerows running along the country lanes which would make it near impossible for an AT gun to fire from; and the thick gnarled branches which would prevent guns traversing, and I think you'd have serious problems firing from behind large stretches of bocage without time consuming preparation work. I'm not too sure how common it was in Normandy for AT guns and armoured vehicles to take up firing positions behind bocage, but looking at photographs of the period, more often than not these vehicles and guns seem to be in prepared defensive positions, rather than just having just pulled up to the hedgerow to start firing. I know the game can't model everything, eg a crew preparing a position, but I think spotting could be much harder for maybe the first 3-5 minutes that a tank pulls up to a piece of bocage and its turret traverse restricted to what an SPG could manage. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warts 'n' all Posted February 13, 2015 Share Posted February 13, 2015 I think BFC have modeled the Norman countryside as well as they can. In fact, it is frustratingly good/bad depending on whether you are playing as the attacker, or defender. Visibility was at a premium, both for Tankers and AT gun crews. That is why panzerfausts and shrecks were so important. As an attacker I fume when my tanks can't find a target. Of course, as a defender I rub my hands with glee when a blind tank stops just a few yards in front of my panzerjager teams. Obviously, the high banked hedgerows of the bocage country didn't block all sight or movement, but with one vehicle equalling one action square it is very difficult for the game to replicate that moment when a tank broke up through the foliage and exposed it's belly to the enemy before it reached the point where it's weight took it downwards. And from what I have read, "that moment" was often long enough to cop a faust or shreck round in the belly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sburke Posted February 14, 2015 Share Posted February 14, 2015 I believe those to be the most exceptional and exceedingly superlative "Mord's CMBN Base Game Unit Portraits V. 4.0" found in the repository at URL = http://www.battlefront.com/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=314&func=fileinfo&id=2921 yeah those are really sweet. One of my favorite mods. 0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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